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Post by kathryn on Jan 5, 2018 14:09:35 GMT
I was being a bit jokey in my remark. Of course one can use historically related theatre or films to start an educational conversation and I agree Hamilton would engage teens more than most shows. It's just I see comments that suggest people don't get the history behind Hamilton and how the show has fun altering this. A teacher can of course address this. Oh don’t worry there was enough sarcasm in my response 😉 I was trying to think of a really rubbish film example to use but couldn’t. Fun fact my first Cumberbatch encounter was via using “Amazing Grace” to “teach” kids with... He was quite good in that. Along with the rather lovely Mr Gruffudd!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2018 14:34:47 GMT
Thing is, Hamilton has inaccuracies but all alterations made for dramatic effect were approved by Ron Chernow. It's not a bad place to *start* a history lesson.
Also, The Book of Mormon is actually pretty fair and accurate in its depiction of the religion. Obviously it springboards off in a hilariously irreverent direction, but there's a reason why Mormons hang around the theatres with religious texts rather than protest placards.
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Post by lynette on Jan 5, 2018 15:17:10 GMT
I don’t mind about 'accuracy' cos I can always look up other sources. Of course we all know 'print the legend'! What concerned me was whether I would be able to understand the words on first hearing when I go in March so I’ve bought the cd and am listening to it with the words. I’m so glad I did because I most certainly would not have heard all the words first go. From what I’ve heard so far it will be quite something of a show. And I won’t be nudging my daughter asking her what he just said!
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Post by martin1965 on Jan 5, 2018 18:08:43 GMT
I know it wont be the periodical of choice for most on here but the review in the latest Spectator is erm interesting! Made me laugh anyway.
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Post by n1david on Jan 5, 2018 18:34:29 GMT
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Post by samsam1985 on Jan 5, 2018 18:35:14 GMT
sorry but i just didn't get it... I mean its well cast and well delivered but I wouldn't see it again. There was way too much rap and hip hop with only a few memorable tunes. But who am I to say this when the show is sold out.
I am a musical theatre fan.. I love most musicals from Miss Saigon to Hair. But I just didn't get it. Didn't enjoy it.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2018 19:07:10 GMT
Tangentially I was reading some articles and related twitter conversation from historians about 'inaccuracies' in 'Historical Drama' this instance it was related to 'The Crown' but it's a similar point. The consensus was that most historians don't mind the inaccuracies because for the most part they assume the 'average Joe' knows not to take it 100% as truth, and most of us will look it up if we're that interested. (This also span off into how easy it is today to look such stuff up compared to previous decades).
Short version, Historians- as @baemax points out about Chernow above, are usually pretty ok with liberties taken as they generally think 'Hey maybe someone will now be interested in my incredibly niche piece of history (and buy my book"
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2018 19:09:11 GMT
What concerned me was whether I would be able to understand the words on first hearing when I go in March so I’ve bought the cd and am listening to it with the words I hadn't heard a thing of it before I went in, and didn't miss a word. Bear in mind too, that I hate "rap" and usually can't understand a word of it. So don't worry lynette . I think you can have it 'either way' (ooh er matron etc) I knew the score really well beforehand and I felt like I got more from it, because I already knew the 'gist' and wasn't concentrating so hard on listening in. Mum knew nothing of it and still got the plot but felt like (on listening after) she'd have got more of it had she known it beforehand. The plot itself is fairly simplistic (not meant as an insult) so I think you'll be ok though Lynette.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2018 19:16:46 GMT
I try never to know anything in advance for a new show, so as to be objective. The one time I broke my own rule (Book Of Mormon) I found that I really spoiled it for myself, too. I go both ways on it (again ooh matron etc) but in the cast of Hamilton I assumed that I wasn't going to see it for YEARS down the line when the OBCR came out so I listened, loved it so carried on listening. It was sheer fluke we won the lottery in NY and ended up seeing it. In general for musicals, if it's something particularly Broadway based that I'm not likely to see for years, I'll listen anyway because why deprive myself of good music for an off chance I'll see it 'one day' is my approach. Recently Jamie and Kinky Boots were ones I had no knowledge of and I can't honestly say I enjoyed them any more or less than if I hadn't personally.
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Post by n1david on Jan 5, 2018 19:21:26 GMT
I try never to know anything in advance for a new show, so as to be objective. The one time I broke my own rule (Book Of Mormon) I found that I really spoiled it for myself, too. I certainly think this is true for "comedy musicals" - I listened to the CD beforehand for Spamalot and so some of the best jokes like "The Song that Goes Like This" were spoiled for me on the night. I think that's less of an issue with "dramatic" musicals, particularly ones with complex or oblique plots - for example, for operas I haven't seen before I always read up on the plot beforehand. I think that can be wise when you only have one shot at seeing something. For Hamilton, I've read Chernow's book, but haven't listened to the score or read much about the detail of the production. But I'm hedging because I've - unusually - already booked again for later in the run, so if I like it, I'll do some more research about the musical itself and get some more familiarity with the score before my second viewing.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2018 19:25:02 GMT
I try never to know anything in advance for a new show, so as to be objective. The one time I broke my own rule (Book Of Mormon) I found that I really spoiled it for myself, too. I certainly think this is true for "comedy musicals" - I listened to the CD beforehand for Spamalot and so some of the best jokes like "The Song that Goes Like This" were spoiled for me on the night. I think that's less of an issue with "dramatic" musicals, particularly ones with complex or oblique plots - for example, for operas I haven't seen before I always read up on the plot beforehand. I think that can be wise when you only have one shot at seeing something. Good point re: comedy ones. Spamalot isn't one I'd sought out to listen to before or after, so can't speak to that. But I think The Producers is probably another good example of that, and Young Frank etc. Obviously dramatic ones can 'Spoil' the plot, but if it's already well-known or based on a film etc that's probably not such a big deal for most. Interesting about Mormon- listening to the recording confirmed I have zero desire to spend money on the thing so it was probably a worthwhile investment
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Post by poster J on Jan 5, 2018 20:41:13 GMT
I hadn't heard a thing of it before I went in, and didn't miss a word. Bear in mind too, that I hate "rap" and usually can't understand a word of it. So don't worry lynette . I think you can have it 'either way' (ooh er matron etc) I knew the score really well beforehand and I felt like I got more from it, because I already knew the 'gist' and wasn't concentrating so hard on listening in. Mum knew nothing of it and still got the plot but felt like (on listening after) she'd have got more of it had she known it beforehand. The plot itself is fairly simplistic (not meant as an insult) so I think you'll be ok though Lynette. In terms of being vaguely appraised of the plot you can also just buy a programme and read the summary before the show. Or just read the Wikipedia biographies of any of the characters you don't already know much about, which is what I did.
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Post by martin1965 on Jan 5, 2018 20:51:48 GMT
My son is going tomorrow and i just told him to read the programme beforehand because obviously he wont know anything of the history. I dont go til April.
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Post by christya on Jan 5, 2018 22:02:22 GMT
I do think the second act, in particular, is probably quite hard to follow for some people if they're not familiar with the history at all. It only takes being briefly distracted, and you've missed crucial information. I studied some US history at University, and even so the first time I saw it there were bits where I was briefly thrown off - in particular remembering when someone was playing another character.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2018 22:26:44 GMT
sorry but i just didn't get it... I mean its well cast and well delivered but I wouldn't see it again. There was way too much rap and hip hop with only a few memorable tunes. But who am I to say this when the show is sold out. I am a musical theatre fan.. I love most musicals from Miss Saigon to Hair. But I just didn't get it. Didn't enjoy it. perhaps Hair and Miss Saigon aren’t the best examples When citing musicals Hair has no plot And Miss Saigon is a tacky opera rip off for the general public
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2018 22:43:07 GMT
My son is going tomorrow and i just told him to read the programme beforehand because obviously he wont know anything of the history. I dont go til April. Didn’t he go to school?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2018 22:52:27 GMT
My son is going tomorrow and i just told him to read the programme beforehand because obviously he wont know anything of the history. I dont go til April. Didn’t he go to school? Funnily, American history is not covered by the National Curriculum in the U.K. There’s no need to be patronising.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2018 23:05:47 GMT
Funnily, American history is not covered by the National Curriculum in the U.K. There’s no need to be patronising. If you are just relying on the national curriculum You won’t go very far in life 😂😂😂
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2018 23:09:05 GMT
Funnily, American history is not covered by the National Curriculum in the U.K. There’s no need to be patronising. See above posters comments In Mother Christmas Thread THATS patronising Peoples ignorance of major world shaping events Is not really my problem People love categorising Lack of knowledge As patronising It just takes a bit of interest and curiosity in the world Beyond the end of your own nose and street Oh sorry The national curriculum Doesn’t cover common sense Does it
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2018 23:23:43 GMT
Funnily, American history is not covered by the National Curriculum in the U.K. There’s no need to be patronising. If you are just relying on the national curriculum You won’t go very far in life 😂😂😂 It’s not what I rely on... but most schools do. Perhaps you ought to educate yourself before trying to insult others?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2018 23:28:21 GMT
Anyway, at least one ticket available for Monday. It's just £200 lol.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2018 23:32:36 GMT
If you are just relying on the national curriculum You won’t go very far in life 😂😂😂 It’s not what I rely on... but most schools do. Perhaps you ought to educate yourself before trying to insult others? 😂😂😂 Most schools” Like “most plays”
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Post by martin1965 on Jan 5, 2018 23:37:20 GMT
My son is going tomorrow and i just told him to read the programme beforehand because obviously he wont know anything of the history. I dont go til April. Didn’t he go to school? If i say anymore i will get into trouble with the mods. Lets just hope we never meet.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2018 23:38:49 GMT
It’s not what I rely on... but most schools do. Perhaps you ought to educate yourself before trying to insult others? 😂😂😂 Most schools” Like “most plays” The more you post the thinner your argument gets. It will soon be “ slim as a pickle”.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2018 23:40:18 GMT
If i say anymore i will get into trouble with the mods. Lets just hope we never meet. “We’ll meet again Don’t know where don’t know when” Oh! No bad feelings please My point was people are free to read outside Of curriculums or prescribed set texts or subjects I hope your son enjoys the show! And you do too when you see it
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Post by martin1965 on Jan 5, 2018 23:40:35 GMT
If you are just relying on the national curriculum You won’t go very far in life 😂😂😂 It’s not what I rely on... but most schools do. Perhaps you ought to educate yourself before trying to insult others? Never stopped him before.
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Post by tom on Jan 5, 2018 23:41:19 GMT
😂😂😂 Most schools” Like “most plays” The more you post the thinner your argument gets. Don’t Feed The Ignorant And Self important Trolls.
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Post by martin1965 on Jan 5, 2018 23:42:08 GMT
If i say anymore i will get into trouble with the mods. Lets just hope we never meet. “We’ll meet again Don’t know where don’t know when” Oh! No bad feelings please My point was people are free to read outside Of curriculums or prescribed set texts or subjects I hope your son enjoys the show! And you do too when you see it Oh please! Too late for backtracking, we all know exactly what you meant😡😡😡
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2018 23:43:42 GMT
😂😂😂 Most schools” Like “most plays” The more you post the thinner your argument gets. Are you suggesting Most people only learn and follow What their school tells them? They may watch a film or show outside of that setting Or go on holiday somewhere Learning extends outside of school People have suggested on the forum That any deficits of knowledge Are due to the national curriculum They don’t teach Beyonce at school Most young people know the lyrics to all her songs If you listen to Hamilton The lyrics They are self explanatory And tell a clear story And a narrative I am not sure schooling or curriculum are relevant And why people bought them up
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Post by lynette on Jan 5, 2018 23:44:29 GMT
I doubt there is a school in the U.K. that mentions Hamilton in the whole school at any time, let alone the American Revolution, let alone the American political system. Maybe if Trump changes that, because teachers can inform pupils of the system etc, then that is one good thing he can do. I will happily retract that if Parsley or anyone else can find me a school that teaches about Hamilton.
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