2,452 posts
|
Post by theatremadness on Jun 22, 2020 12:07:40 GMT
God that tweet from ALW has made things juicy hasn't it!!! *grabs popcorn*
|
|
2,452 posts
|
Post by theatremadness on Jun 14, 2020 13:29:39 GMT
Derrick and Gia (judging from her season and AS4) just seem like deeply unpleasant people. Shea's runway in the 2nd ep tho 😱😱😱😱👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
|
|
2,452 posts
|
Post by theatremadness on Jun 13, 2020 12:28:05 GMT
If you can't see that the n-word is wrong, then yes you need to be told what to do. Ok, one very simple question for you. Just a yes or no will do, and I will assume that no reply also means yes. Do you wish you could use the n-word? LOL.
Ok, one very simple question for you. Don't you wish you had a real life off the internet.
Sorry are we not both having this conversation or did I miss something? Anyway, I mean yes that'd be lovely but I’ve got nowhere to go at the moment so the internet will have to do. I will take your avoidance of the question I asked to tell me everything I need to know! I'm sure Dave25 will be thrilled to have you in his club.
|
|
2,452 posts
|
Post by theatremadness on Jun 13, 2020 12:00:52 GMT
"I literally cannot believe". Literally no one needs you to tell them what they should do. And, in fact, you can only get away with this crap on the internet becasue out here in real life people would be very direct in explaining that to you. If you can't see that the n-word is wrong, then yes you need to be told what to do. Ok, one very simple question for you. Just a yes or no will do, and I will assume that no reply also means yes. Do you wish you could use the n-word?
|
|
2,452 posts
|
Post by theatremadness on Jun 13, 2020 10:19:15 GMT
I'm with you - I’d much prefer to never hear the word uttered by anyone ever again. But far be it from me, a white man, to tell black communities to stop using the n-word. That's a conversation for black communities to have, if they choose to have it. Thanks for the link to the article, I shall read it in the morning! So you only want to police the rules of Art for white people. Phew! For a minute I thought you were being irrational. I'm not going to start telling black people what they can and cannot do about a word that only they know how much harm it causes them. But it should never, ever be heard coming from a white person in this day and age. I literally cannot believe I’m having this conversation. If you want to talk about irrationality, how about we remember that out of the two of us, it seems that you can't function if you don't hear the n-word.
|
|
2,452 posts
|
Post by theatremadness on Jun 13, 2020 1:16:47 GMT
Do you actually need the hear the n word to remember that it existed? No one does. That word does not need to be heard in 2020, least of all by black people. We all remember perfectly well that it exists because people *today* use it, because they still believe it's as acceptable today as it was then. So in this particular instance, it's time to show that it's not acceptable today. Someone had better tell that to a bunch of black rappers, then. And yes, I fully understand it’s different for white people and black people to use the word. But to me it’s just plain ugly and shouldn’t be uttered. Interesting piece in Variety mentioning this: variety.com/2018/music/opinion/kendrick-lamar-rappers-should-stop-using-n-word-1202818977/I watched the remake of Roots a while back, a series that offered a shocking reminder of the human cost of slavery. I winced every time the N word was deployed. Of course it was there for a reason - to reflect historical truth - but I did think how deeply unpleasant it must be for the black actors to have to hear it, and indeed for the white actors to have to say it. (I can’t remember if the episodes in question carried warnings, but I assume they did.) I'm with you - I’d much prefer to never hear the word uttered by anyone ever again. But far be it from me, a white man, to tell black communities to stop using the n-word. That's a conversation for black communities to have, if they choose to have it. Thanks for the link to the article, I shall read it in the morning!
|
|
2,452 posts
|
Post by theatremadness on Jun 12, 2020 21:41:06 GMT
I completely understand that sentiment but I personally I think we have to draw the line at the n word and racial slurs. This is a perfect opportunity to listen to those who this affects and whilst many are saying this whole tv show removal thing actually detracts from the BLM movement, everyone agrees that that word has absolutely no place in society, whether it's endorsed by the show or not or was “of the time”. Black people do not deserve to pay for streaming services and then be faced with that word (someone I talked to today had this exact concern with her cousins). Remove the words, his attitudes will still be clear. The BBC censored this episode back in 2013 which is why many people don't even remember the racial slurs. The fact that UKTV and Netflix were still showing the episode unedited it quite staggering. It will not affect the enjoyment or funniness of the episode by not having those words there! I still think a warning at the start would help. But with respect to that particular scene, the line doesn't add anything to the episode plot wise so I agree, removing it is probably the best thing to do. Cleese and Booth agreed to cut the line years ago so that should be the end of it but people love to stir up a drama! Agreed, agreed and agreed!
|
|
2,452 posts
|
Post by theatremadness on Jun 12, 2020 21:37:58 GMT
I completely understand that sentiment but I personally I think we have to draw the line at the n word and racial slurs. This is a character playing a part for a reason. These characters existed, it's the context that got us to where we are.
Shall we pretend te n word never existed at all, that would be nicer for everyone.
Do you actually need the hear the n word to remember that it existed? No one does. That word does not need to be heard in 2020, least of all by black people. We all remember perfectly well that it exists because people *today* use it, because they still believe it's as acceptable today as it was then. So in this particular instance, it's time to show that it's not acceptable today.
|
|
2,452 posts
|
Post by theatremadness on Jun 12, 2020 21:35:04 GMT
Quite, but there's a huge difference between Fawlty Towers and something like Love Thy Neighbour - another 70s sitcom, but one which you will never see repeated, and with good reason. In the case of Show Boat, which I cited further up this thread, it's not about censorship. It's about understanding that the impact of certain words and certain tropes has changed over the past century to the point where you have to take into account that they will land very differently with an audience today. the racism goes both ways I have serious issues with the “racism goes both ways” argument but I haven't seen Love Thy Neighbour. I believe racial prejudice against white people is something that could happen, and would be totally wrong. But I don't believe it can be racism because the power structure is forever weighted on the side of white people and there is no widespread, lasting negative impact against white people. Lasting disadvantages such as education, healthcare, and career aspects that white people may face, will not face them because of their skin colour. But for black people, they will. I know I’m making a big deal out of a flippant comment but I think it's important. It's our privilege that we can be so flippant.
|
|
2,452 posts
|
Post by theatremadness on Jun 12, 2020 21:23:04 GMT
Personally I think censoring comedy shows or indeed any art from the past is wrong. It is as much a part of history as anything else and looking back on it enables us to see how far we have come. Put a warning up before the show to explain and give context to it, then people who might be offended can choose not to watch. In the case of Fawlty Towers for example. The Major is a relic from another age and his awful language reflects that. It isn't endorsed by Fawlty in the scene. I completely understand that sentiment but I personally I think we have to draw the line at the n word and racial slurs. This is a perfect opportunity to listen to those who this affects and whilst many are saying this whole tv show removal thing actually detracts from the BLM movement, everyone agrees that that word has absolutely no place in society, whether it's endorsed by the show or not or was “of the time”. Black people do not deserve to pay for streaming services and then be faced with that word (someone I talked to today had this exact concern with her cousins). Remove the words, his attitudes will still be clear. The BBC censored this episode back in 2013 which is why many people don't even remember the racial slurs. The fact that UKTV and Netflix were still showing the episode unedited it quite staggering. It will not affect the enjoyment or funniness of the episode by not having those words there!
|
|
2,452 posts
|
Post by theatremadness on Jun 11, 2020 14:36:12 GMT
Watched the first 2 last night, too. Laugh out loud hilarious. Brilliant concept, brilliantly executed. Loved it. Those two have such fantastic chemistry, even over zoom. Not that the theatre scene needs a play with two straight, white, middle class men but I would love to see them in a play together when this is all over. But what? Will keep watching weekly on BBC1 so I don't binge it too quick!
|
|
2,452 posts
|
Post by theatremadness on Jun 9, 2020 15:06:11 GMT
There's a lengthy post on Facebook by Patrick Wayne Benjamin-Lange which you can read in full on his page but I thought this section on statistics is prettt interesting given some posts on previous pages.
“15. “More white people are killed by cops than black people. Here are the statistics...” - I love when people do research! Thank you for that! But those stats that you’re proudly flashing around aren’t an accurate reflection of the issue. According to data, there are aprox. 234,370,202 white people In the United States. Comparatively, that same data states that there are 40,610,815 “Black” Americans. So, when your stats show 1,398 white people have been killed by officers since 2017 and only 543 Black people, what those statistics really show is .0005% of white people were killed by police in those 3.5 years, while .0011% of black people were killed by police. That means, black people were killed 220% more often by police, even though they make up only 12% of the population compared to white peoples 73%. Math has no racial bias. Those aren’t good stats. Stop using them to defend your position.
16. “Black people commit more crime...” - Do they really though? According to data released in 2017, there were 475,900 black prisoners in state and federal prisons and 436,500 white prisoners. That’s a difference of about 9%. So for arguments sake, let’s say those numbers are an accurate reflection of the amount of crime committed. If people of colour commit only 9% more crime, why are they killed by police 220% more often?
17. “Well, the same stats you mentioned shows that even though they’re only 12% of the population, they commit 54% of the crime.” - Good Catch! But those numbers don’t actually reflect the amount of crime committed. That’s why I said to assume they’re correct. Those numbers only reveal how many people are incarcerated. The reality is, while those numbers are all we have to go on, they don’t tell the complete story either. In the United States specifically, socioeconomic racism, which was designed to keep POC in poverty through district red-lining, a lower quality of education and other systemic obstacles, is a huge component. Thanks to redlining (look it up) and other zoning and banking practices, quality of education in “black” neighbourhoods is significantly lower, which means the average income for POC in those neighbours is lower and the unemployment much higher. Also thanks to redlining, the unemployment rate, and lower income rates, crime in those neighborhoods tends to be higher. That means those neighborhoods are patrolled by police more often. Thanks to racial bias, POC are followed, stopped, harassed and arrested more frequently than the white people who live in those same neighbourhoods. What all of this means is that, when POC are arrested more frequently, they often can’t afford fancy lawyers to help them. They usually end up with Public Defenders, who are often overworked, and they often encourage POC to plead guilty in exchange for less time. Then there’s the fact that, because white people make up 73% of the population, they also tend to make up a bigger percentage of Jurors. There’s lots of factors to consider. So don’t assume that just because they make up 54% of the people in jail, that they make up 54% of the crime. The entire system is broken. That’s part of the problem.“
|
|
2,452 posts
|
Post by theatremadness on Jun 9, 2020 11:52:57 GMT
I do stand by my view though, that how long can we allow someone who holds such proud racist views to be allowed an account? Is there no clear violation of rules because he's careful with the words he chooses and therefore it's essentially at the mods discretion? We don't ban people lightly. It's a last resort: we first try to talk them round and get them to behave. If they won't change their ways then we discuss what to do about it, and if enough of us agree then we ban them. It takes time, especially as we're not all online at the same time. It's easy for people to complain that we haven't acted quickly enough when dealing with other posters but I'm sure nobody would want us to rush into a decision if we were dealing with complaints about them. I think this is the first time I've intervened without discussion and agreement among all of us. But then, it's not often somebody quotes as a supporting source a person who believes that the problem with Hitler was that he was too ambitious. That makes total sense, I completely understand. Also very easy to forget (myself included) that this is not your job. So thanks to all mods for your work. I read her views on Globalism and Nationalism a few days ago (as a result of calling a Facebook friend out for sharing Candace Owens' video which led to *them* removing *me* as a friend) and it's truly staggering!
|
|
2,452 posts
|
Post by theatremadness on Jun 9, 2020 10:13:29 GMT
So... Would people like us to clean up this thread, or leave it as an example of the denialism that extremist misrepresentation of the facts can cause? Yeah I think the latter and PosterJ is right. Cleaning up the thread would possibly look like we're trying to say these kind of views don't exist, and I think the more people see what some people are really like, the better. I do stand by my view though, that how long can we allow someone who holds such proud racist views to be allowed an account? Is there no clear violation of rules because he's careful with the words he chooses and therefore it's essentially at the mods discretion?
|
|
2,452 posts
|
Post by theatremadness on Jun 9, 2020 0:02:54 GMT
I knew it was a bad idea to look through this thread late at night....my blood pressure is through the roof!
Thanks to all the posters and mods who have been having to try and debate why racism is bad today. As if that's a sentence I actually have to write.
Can we just take a second to remember one very important thing: Dave25 is a racist. That might seem extreme but I’m sick of not calling it out enough. We have a racist on our forum, I think it's pretty clear to see. Just take a look at what he has written on this thread. The detail he has gone into to make sure he is absolutely certain that a black life will not be treated as equal as his is? It's the absolute lowest of the low.
Why do we still have this racist on our forum? They do not want to to listen. They do not want to learn or grow.
When do we finally say: enough is enough?
|
|
2,452 posts
|
Post by theatremadness on Jun 7, 2020 13:32:21 GMT
Interesting that without being mentioned in any way, shape, or form, Dave25 thought betty's post was about him. If the shoe fits, I guess...?
|
|
2,452 posts
|
Post by theatremadness on Jun 7, 2020 0:29:07 GMT
sf lord knows you tried. How Dave25 is still allowed an account on this forum I don't know.
|
|
2,452 posts
|
Post by theatremadness on Jun 6, 2020 18:33:29 GMT
The thing is, I haven't seen any ideas as to what would be better than the current form of protest. For me, it's the other way round. Whilst I completely understand valid concerns about mass gatherings, so many people feel so angry that they have no choice but to protest.
|
|
2,452 posts
|
Post by theatremadness on Jun 5, 2020 16:28:42 GMT
Officially over 40,000 dead - based on the numbers given to us by the government anyway. Reported deaths 357. How Matt Hancock can stand there and say those numbers without choking, I don't know. No medical or scientific officers at this briefing, either. Just Hancock on his own. What is going on?!?!
|
|
2,452 posts
|
Post by theatremadness on Jun 5, 2020 12:56:45 GMT
Yes, it seems that some people don't support theatre, they just support theatre that they like.
You can roll your eyes all ya like, doesn't change anything!
|
|
2,452 posts
|
Post by theatremadness on Jun 5, 2020 12:08:12 GMT
Yes, it seems that some people don't support theatre, they just support theatre that they like. Besides, I love Chicago!
|
|
2,452 posts
|
Post by theatremadness on Jun 5, 2020 12:03:38 GMT
There have been many, many amateur productions of Sister Act with all white casts. The rights holders don't forbid it but they also don't allow any text changes to accommodate it. I wouldn't endorse it myself, but I guess the difference is that Hairspray is fundamentally a story about race issues, whereas the lead in Sister Act is traditionally black but at a push could be played by someone of a different race (I may be wrong but I don't think her race is mentioned in the show?) - similar for Kinky Boots. In the updated version of the show, they included a line which I absolutely detest. In reference to going undercover as a nun, Deloris says she is going “incogn*gro” instead of incognito. I've refrained from using the actual word as I hate it, so I hope I haven't caused any offense. Please remove if needed, but for those unsure it's supposed to rhyme with incognito where the last half of the word is a spectacularly old-fashioned word for a black person. I don't know if it's still in the script, but I assume it is.
|
|
2,452 posts
|
Post by theatremadness on Jun 3, 2020 12:18:42 GMT
As said in the statement, other shows may extend their closing. Matilda have said they're closed until 30th Aug, currently.
|
|
2,452 posts
|
Post by theatremadness on Jun 2, 2020 18:56:23 GMT
I'll never understand how “actually, we're not highest in the world, we're 2nd highest” is an argument. It’s not an argument. I was commenting on the problem with just counting number of deaths. I’m not here to argue. Sorry, I didn't mean an argument in an angry sense, I mean an argument in support of the government, or against the media, or whatever it is. And not that you're the only one to mention it, but it just made me think. I also find the comparison reasoning confusing, because the government was all too happy to show comparisons from around the world in the daily briefings. Until our numbers got too high, that is.
|
|
2,452 posts
|
Post by theatremadness on Jun 2, 2020 16:22:43 GMT
I'll never understand how “actually, we're not highest in the world, we're 2nd highest” is an argument.
|
|
2,452 posts
|
Post by theatremadness on Jun 2, 2020 11:59:15 GMT
Thank goodness we have this thread here to allow members to be a little racist. Oh well, truth hurts!
|
|
2,452 posts
|
Post by theatremadness on May 31, 2020 22:54:32 GMT
No, @burlybear was complimentary about Rosalind Russell and Sarah Harding. Sooooooooo..........this is just a thread to be rude about people? Lovely 😂 I don't think “wasn't as bad as people said” is the compliment you think it is. And everything else so far?
|
|
2,452 posts
|
Post by theatremadness on May 31, 2020 21:07:36 GMT
Sooooooooo..........this is just a thread to be rude about people? Lovely 😂
|
|
2,452 posts
|
Post by theatremadness on May 30, 2020 19:03:28 GMT
I am not privileged as I am retired and with a low pension. I agreed with the measures the government made to protect jobs etc with the furlough scheme and I actually agree it should be extended in certain sectors which will find it difficult to return such as hospitality etc. The point I was making, probably not too well put was that we can't go on paying everyone without an end date in mind. I guess the situation with the economy will need to be reevaluated continually over the coming months to assess if further measures are needed. I have great sympathy with anyone suffering due to finance reasons or any other for that matter. I apologise if that did not come across. We all have to play our own part in ensuring this dreadful situation is eased as soon as possible. I completely understand and appreciate the clarification. I tend to go on the defensive when the “people love furlough/SEISS because they're lazy” even vaguely rears it’s head. I would love nothing more than to get back to work, preferably yesterday, but both mine and my Dad's areas of work (we do different things) will most likely be among the very, very last to resume due to their natures, with government support for both industries seemingly invisible. So without the financial support, our incomes are at precisely £0 and there is nothing we can do until it is safe. We are the lucky ones! Some fall through all gaps in all schemes so have been earning £0 since lockdown started. So I too apologise if it came off harsh, but as you've stated, everyone's reality is different. One of the many problems I have with this government is their decision to protect the economy at this stage and stopping any financial support forces the decision into the hands of the worker. Don’t go to work and get no support to live, potentially even lose your job, or go to work in unsafe conditions just to be able to live. Which working in unsafe conditions may then sort that out for you anyway.
|
|
2,452 posts
|
Post by theatremadness on May 30, 2020 16:22:01 GMT
...nor pay everyone for doing nothing for evermore. Your privilege really shows with sentences like this.
|
|