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Post by Someone in a tree on May 24, 2023 12:06:34 GMT
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Post by TallPaul on May 24, 2023 12:33:40 GMT
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Post by zahidf on May 24, 2023 12:33:51 GMT
WHole lot of culture war nonsense from the right wing papers as usual. Seems perfectly reasonable as a concept and as is made clear, no one is excluded.
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Post by londonpostie on May 24, 2023 13:07:58 GMT
Will this get extended to tv rooms in nursing homes and hospitals?
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Post by oxfordsimon on May 24, 2023 13:20:27 GMT
It appears to have sold out so as a piece of marketing it can certainly be seen to have worked.
In an audience situation, does it matter who is sitting next to you, or three rows back, or in the circle?
As long as those audience members are respectful of one another and the basics of sharing a space, the answer, to my mind, is no.
Too many people are now spending too much of their time in bubbles, surrounding themselves with views and opinions that reinforce their own.
That is not healthy on a whole range of levels. Experiencing things that provoke debate and conversation is a good thing. Being challenged is a good thing.
Excluding people on the basis of a characteristic seems to run contrary to that. And whilst this sort of event is said to not exclude all those other than the specified audience group, I do wonder what the reality of that would be.
I certainly would be interested is seeing academic research that looked at the data around these events and the experiences of those who attended. Not anecdotes or comments on twitter, but proper research that looked at the reaction of audience members from 'regular' performances compared to those who attended the 'specified group' performance.
Does this sort of event achieve the goals they set out for themselves? Is the audience experience actually different?
There needs to be research done to know whether it is an effective tool or just a way of raising profile.
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Post by Mark on May 24, 2023 13:54:50 GMT
I think you’ve put it very well oxfordsimonI have seen quite a lot of shows in the past few years which very much focus on the black experience - Topdog/Underdog, Fat Ham, A Strange Loop, Ain’t No Mo - amongst others. Certainly a more diverse audience at these shows (especially Ain’t No Mo, which got a rapturous reaction). Another show is Skeleton Crew in which the playwright Dominique Morisseau had a note in the playbill with an almost “encouragement to engage” - giving permission to audience members to react and feel the words being said, whilst noticing some theatre goers may not be used to this level of engagement. This brings me to the wonder of why a “black out” performance is necessary because by its very nature, it is exclusionary to a certain group. If you can agree with a blackout performance here, can you also agree there be an LGBT+ only performance of La Cage aux Folles? |
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Post by zahidf on May 24, 2023 14:52:34 GMT
I think one show out of 30 is fine...
If something like Prima Facie has one performance marketed just for women, because of the subject matter, would that be seen in the same way?
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Post by londonpostie on May 24, 2023 15:24:15 GMT
Or men only at A Little Life: toxic togetherness!
Perhaps ACE need to issue guidelines on quotas to make sure no one is offended. Hang on, that's going the opposite way. Sorry.
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Post by n1david on May 24, 2023 15:27:24 GMT
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Post by theglenbucklaird on May 24, 2023 16:36:54 GMT
As a white Jamaican will I get turned away?
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Post by n1david on May 24, 2023 17:11:38 GMT
As a white Jamaican will I get turned away? No one is getting turned away. |
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Post by theglenbucklaird on May 24, 2023 17:22:34 GMT
As a white Jamaican will I get turned away? No one is getting turned away. Sounds a good night then |
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Post by theatremiss on May 24, 2023 17:24:17 GMT
What does that Time Out article mean when it states “Non-Black audiences aren’t actually banned from these nights - they’ve been respectfully asked to make way.” Why should anyone make way for anyone when it comes to seeing a show. Tbh last time I went to a show with predominantly non-white audience most people were on their phones and actually weren’t watching the show. I just find it all very odd tbh
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Post by oxfordsimon on May 24, 2023 17:39:31 GMT
For the moment, I am going to be sceptical about creating spaces in the arts to which only one group will truly be welcomed. Even for one performance.
Art, in whatever form, should never seek to exclude. It should be as accessible as possible.
Where there are issues regarding how groups within society access the arts, is this sort of event the right way to tackle those issues?
I don't believe there is any research that has looked at it. I hope that academics are going to investigate and challenge this sort of endeavour with an open mind.
Then everyone can have a clearer understanding of whether or not it works as a concept. If it does, is it worth expanding to other groups in society? If it doesn't, then what other options to increase engagement and participation can we deploy?
Taking the heat out of the discussion is vital. Which is why an evidence based approach is the best way forward.
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Post by sph on May 24, 2023 17:49:07 GMT
I don't know... it feels strange in this day and age to do anything that actively excludes another group of people.
I'm an LGBT person, but if I were to find out that a performance I was attending was just for LGBT people I'd feel quite uncomfortable.
People may frame it as positive discrimination or "creating opportunities" for those who may not normally attend a certain event, but if in doing so you create division between groups of people will you really succeed?
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Post by profquatermass on May 24, 2023 17:53:12 GMT
Out of interest, are there any global majority posters in this thread? Or just white people complaining because one theatre has decided to put on one performance targeted at once particular group. Just as theatres have been doing relaxed performances for years and cinemas do performances for parents with babies (which I suspect most of us would actually be excluded from which we wouldn't from this performance). Why exact does it upset people so much? Why does there need to be academic research? Why can't it just be an initiative by a theatre to try to attract a new audience/make a particular audience feel comfortable etc?
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Post by mkb on May 24, 2023 18:29:00 GMT
Out of interest, are there any global majority posters in this thread? Or just white people ... What a strange turn of phrase, that I've not come across before. The inference from the next sentence suggests "global majority" means "non-white"? |
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Post by oxfordsimon on May 24, 2023 18:30:01 GMT
Out of interest, are there any global majority posters in this thread? Or just white people complaining because one theatre has decided to put on one performance targeted at once particular group. Just as theatres have been doing relaxed performances for years and cinemas do performances for parents with babies (which I suspect most of us would actually be excluded from which we wouldn't from this performance). Why exact does it upset people so much? Why does there need to be academic research? Why can't it just be an initiative by a theatre to try to attract a new audience/make a particular audience feel comfortable etc? I am not complaining. I am expressing scepticism as to whether this is an appropriate way of increasing access and participation in the arts. I have been very careful in my choice of language to try to capture my view in more general terms rather than focusing on this one production. This is a very different sort of event to a relaxed or signed performance (both of which are happening as part of the production under debate) because they are not being marketed as asking others not to attend. Proper research can look at the thinking surrounding this sort of project. It can take the heat out the debate and can see whether it actually achieved the goals it sets out. The arts should be accessible to all. I hope we can agree on that. There will be challenges in achieving that. New initiatives are welcome but you need objective measures to assess their impact beyond anecdote. |
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Post by alece10 on May 24, 2023 18:36:09 GMT
I don't know... it feels strange in this day and age to do anything that actively excludes another group of people. I'm an LGBT person, but if I were to find out that a performance I was attending was just for LGBT people I'd feel quite uncomfortable. People may frame it as positive discrimination or "creating opportunities" for those who may not normally attend a certain event, but if in doing so you create division between groups of people will you really succeed? God that would be a nightmare. An audience full of people judging each other 😀 |
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Post by sph on May 24, 2023 18:49:43 GMT
Out of interest, are there any global majority posters in this thread? Or just white people complaining because one theatre has decided to put on one performance targeted at once particular group. Just as theatres have been doing relaxed performances for years and cinemas do performances for parents with babies (which I suspect most of us would actually be excluded from which we wouldn't from this performance). Why exact does it upset people so much? Why does there need to be academic research? Why can't it just be an initiative by a theatre to try to attract a new audience/make a particular audience feel comfortable etc? I don't think people on this board are complaining. It makes no difference to my life personally, I would just wonder whether or not they may be creating an atmosphere of division rather than inclusivity. Relaxed performances are, of course, entirely different because they cater for those with access needs. Being of a different race, gender or sexuality is not a disability. |
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Post by profquatermass on May 24, 2023 19:32:31 GMT
The white male privilege in this thread is almost tangible.
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Post by sph on May 24, 2023 19:37:45 GMT
The white male privilege in this thread is almost tangible. Is trying to promote an atmosphere of inclusivity a classic sign of white male privilege? Or is that just a token phrase you whipped out in order to belittle the arguments of those who take a genuine interest in making theatre accessible for everyone, without creating an environment that may promote exclusivity? |
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Post by BurlyBeaR on May 26, 2023 6:06:56 GMT
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Post by justsaying113 on May 26, 2023 7:50:29 GMT
Just imagine if this were the other way around!
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Post by londonpostie on May 26, 2023 19:26:40 GMT
The white male privilege in this thread is almost tangible. LOL. Literally, no one gives a sh1t about one group's particular pigmentation. It's like being the only gay in the village where no one cares.
Desperate, desperate stuff. As an action, it's up there with screaming at police 'Defund the police!' and 'Hands up, don't shoot!' - like they learned off the internet - in regional town like ... Brighton and Oxford. While everyone else is walking past carrying their bags home from Lidl and Primark looking confused. The full Little Britain.
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Post by profquatermass on May 29, 2023 6:18:25 GMT
The white male privilege in this thread is almost tangible. LOL. Literally, no one gives a sh1t about one group's particular pigmentation. It's like being the only gay in the village where no one cares.
Desperate, desperate stuff. As an action, it's up there with screaming at police 'Defund the police!' and 'Hands up, don't shoot!' - like they learned off the internet - in regional town like ... Brighton and Oxford. While everyone else is walking past carrying their bags home from Lidl and Primark looking confused. The full Little Britain.
Always fascinating to see the total confidence that of so many white people that racism doesn't exist and colour doesn't matter. Then see the reaction to a dark-skinned Anna being cast alongside a white-skinned Elsa... |
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Post by talkingheads on May 29, 2023 13:30:41 GMT
Just imagine if this were the other way around! Yes but it isn't though is it? It is very specifically a play from a black person's perspective. I honestly don't see why people are so angry. Nobody is being excluded, anybody can come if they want to, white people are just politely being told that one performance out of many is for a black audience. If we were talking about actual discrimination and tickets not being sold to a certain demographic, then there would quite rightly be huge controversy. But this is just right wing faux outrange over a non issue. |
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Post by oxfordsimon on May 29, 2023 13:49:42 GMT
I haven't seen anyone posting on here from a position of anger. Scepticism isn't anger. Questioning isn't anger.
It is frustrating when people try to shut down debate and discussion.
Access to the arts is important. Unless and until I see independent evidence that this achieves what it sets out to want, I retain the right to ask questions.
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Post by talkingheads on May 29, 2023 13:56:07 GMT
I haven't seen anyone posting on here from a position of anger. Scepticism isn't anger. Questioning isn't anger. It is frustrating when people try to shut down debate and discussion. Access to the arts is important. Unless and until I see independent evidence that this achieves what it sets out to want, I retain the right to ask questions. Absolutely. I just don't see what all the fuss is about. There are over thirty performances of this play, yet people are up in arms about one single night in which the makers have politely asked should be attended by an all black audience as a communal experience, and even then it says quite clearly that anybody is free to attend. |
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Post by steve10086 on May 29, 2023 14:09:31 GMT
It’s not my place to speak on behalf of a black audience, but I’m not seeing much defence of this idea on here, so I am going to comment. If I say anything offensive I really didn’t mean to!
As I understand it, this is a black story, which wants to reach a black audience (amongst others). Different cultures have different ways of responding and “behaving” (not meant to mean “good”, or “bad”) when watching a play, and perhaps some people want to experience their own culture on stage, and be allowed to react in ways that are culturally appropriate to them, without some middle aged white bloke (me) telling them to sit still and be quiet every five minutes!
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