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Post by Dave25 on Mar 11, 2016 17:02:35 GMT
Tweet from Baz this morning that Danny Boyle is in talks to direct the film This is really interesting and exciting. I love his work. It has this very filmic and cinematographic look (better than life look, editing, camera movements and shots and colors) that could work perfectly for this film. I really hope they continue in this "non literal way" with this material. He definitely understands the filmmaking part. I just hope he understands the musical material too. That he understands the non-literal benefits of this material on film. And that he understands it is important to pre-record the songs as a filmic voiceover, as a non-literal triumph of the fantasy. Actors are perfectly capable of matching the acting with the song. Also editing takes it to the next level. It should be as non-live as possible. And most importantly, that he understands that separating acting from singing, what Hugh Jackman does (speaking 4 words and vibrate for 10 seconds on the last word) makes it unnatural. Instead you should combine it. Use people who can sing the whole sentence and act through the notes. Sing "Now come on ladies, settle down" and act it instead of speaking "now come on ladies, settle" and then sing the word "dooooooooooooown".
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Post by Dave25 on Mar 11, 2016 16:42:52 GMT
"Dju vui vay, yu doi my, dju vui vay, vao nyay moy" Actually, it is Vietnamese. It means "Lend me your time, we are together now, I am happy to borrow it". And yes, a Vietnamese character, the heroine of the show, portrayed as a strong, kind hearted, fighting like a lioness, noble woman, is very respectful. What more would you like to see? I think exposing the situation that was, telling the story, including traditions, is the opposite of racism. Those people complaining in the 80's changed their mind after actually seeing the show. And of course, the truth was probably even worse, like how women were treated etc, but they had to tone it down because the truth is too offensive for some people nowadays.
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Post by Dave25 on Mar 11, 2016 10:10:58 GMT
You are welcome to turn two blind eyes to the racism and sexism of the show, just as everyone here is welcome to love and enjoy their favorite shows, but that gives you no right to insult others. I'm done talking about Miss Saigon and I'm out of this discussion. Good, you are welcome to turn a blind eye on history.
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Post by Dave25 on Mar 10, 2016 22:48:40 GMT
Miss Saigon.
It should be much more well known and out there. It beats Les Mis and Phantom in my opinion.
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Post by Dave25 on Mar 10, 2016 22:35:35 GMT
A part from the fact that is racist How is racist ? No idea. Maybe towards whites because Chris remarried? Because Ellen comes off as bitchy? Kim is the absolute heroine, portrayed as strong willed, faithful, loving, fighting, good hearted young woman. Because John stands up for the Bui Doi? Everyone using the word "racism" for this show is too dumb for words. Pardon my words, but I mean it. This show's characters and story go so much further than any form of race, I feel sad for the people who can't look past that.
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Post by Dave25 on Mar 10, 2016 22:27:32 GMT
Miss Saigon. It basically reads like Boublil and Schoenberg went "well, people liked Eponine and Thenardier, what can we do next?", and I absolutely do not get the rapturous outpourings of adoration it receives. Apart from the helicopter, that was pretty awesome. Indeed. I'm stunned that in this day and age of hypersensitivity whenever race and gender are concerned, a show so blatantly sexist and racist can still be so popular. Never mind the completely ridiculous second act where nothing at all makes sense. This music and emotion and story is absolutely breathtaking. There is a reason the whole audience is in tears every night. This show is not about a helicopter, I find that part boring. If you think that is the highlight you just don't get it. The second act makes everything come together. And what is sexist in your eyes? History? So the hookers should play cards instead to make you happy? Get out of here.
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Post by Dave25 on Mar 10, 2016 8:27:34 GMT
Has to be Wicked. Very annoying show. In my opinion just a bunch of appearances, sets, poorly written songs and incoherent high notes and a dreadful ensemble song here and there.
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Post by Dave25 on Mar 6, 2016 1:39:11 GMT
I find this whole film offensive. The literal approach is disrespectful to the art. This material is per definition not literal.
It is a 1 take theatre performance on a pavement with no filmic editing whatsoever, and I see a bunch of poor actors literally struggling with notes. Therefore only the crying scenes work.
This inadequacy makes the singing feel extremely unnatural and out of place. And that makes the acting feel extremely unnatural, as you wonder why the hell they are speaking 3 words and give the last word a 12 second failed musical parody vibrato.
Every stage Valjean gave a much more filmic performance. For example "Now come on ladies, settle down". Every stage Valjean kept the last word short. Jackman speaks the first words and then a 12 second "doooooooooooooooooown" with a grating vibrato. This lack of understanding and lack of combining the singing and acting (instead of constantly switching) made people in the audience laugh.
The singing gets in the way of the acting for them. As they didn't know how to use it. Only when crying.
Combine that with a director who doesn't understand this way of storytelling at all (wrong timings, for example when the guards still walk in the room when the bishop sings "but remember this, my brother", is a guaranteed mess. The main mistake was the thought that "toning everything down" would make it raw and real. It made it silly and stupid. And funny.
The live-bleating was also a part of this problem. Too literal for film.
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Post by Dave25 on Mar 5, 2016 1:08:25 GMT
Does anyone have and predictions or hopes for the feature film? I had some ideas... ~ Cast an unknown for Kim as was the case when Lea and Eva were discovered. Preferably Vietnamese too... ~ cut the 'Maybe' section as it's not the strongest song and it doesn't advance the plot ~ use the live vocals technique of Les Miserables film to create a more theatrical feel NO LIVE VOCALS!!!! The Les Mis film is too literal. This material is per definition not literal. The Les Mis film is basically a theatre performance on a pavement in 1 take shots. Film should be much more than that. Use all the possibilities cinematography has to offer. Elaborate editing, fantastic cinematography, bigger than life fantasy sets. Using the songs in different ways, sometimes as a voiceover, sometimes as a soundtrack and sometimes mouthed by the character. A triumph of the fantasy. In "last night of the world" I want to see what is going on in their minds. A big romantic bamboo bed with a mosquito net, a fan, a muggy atmosphere, fantastic camera work and editing. Not because it was probably like that in real life (it was probably a dark empty room with only a mattress on the floor), but this is their thoughts being portrayed. Not literal. In "Thuy's death" after she shot him, I want to see a huge big black space with a choir of soldiers with ghost faces singing " this is he hour". This is the end of the world in Kim's mind. Not because it was probably like that in real life, but filming the scene in 1 take in an alley between a clothes line and a trash can (Les Mis way, too literal) is not going to work. With pre-recorded tracks a certain magic surreal reality is created that feels better/bigger than life. Then I can focus on the whole scene as a result instead of seeing an actor struggling with the notes. That is the magic I feel this film needs. I think the role of Kim is very difficult to cast, and that the role is like a diamond. It takes years to polish and sharpen it to make it perfect. I would like to see Tanya in the film. She is a wonderful actress. I love the song "Maybe" and think it could work very well in the film version, maybe the second verse as a kind of voice-over when we see the first meeting of Ellen and Chris in better times. Imagine what they could do with the Nightmare scene and Dreamland (Movie in my mind) when pre-recorded and wonderfully edited.
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Post by Dave25 on Mar 2, 2016 16:14:52 GMT
Ria Jones is actually a great singer with the singing voice of a Norma. Including the tone of her head voice. Reminds me a bit of Debra Byrne. It sounds classy.
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Post by Dave25 on Feb 29, 2016 13:14:28 GMT
I hear that too but I thought the staging was one of the big highlights of the show and the entire Kim nightmare sequence is one of the most memorable theatre moments I've ever seen. Does anyone who saw the original know how the two versions compare? It was more spectacular in the first version, the fence was just huge.
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Post by Dave25 on Feb 28, 2016 10:39:29 GMT
Thanks for that amazing clip!
So Cameron is talking about 2 different projects, the cinema release (25th Gala performance with the additional footage recorded last month) and an actual feature film version.
Both projects are extremely exciting.
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Post by Dave25 on Feb 23, 2016 11:59:01 GMT
I think the magic of this material is the animation. Fluid movements and magical animation. Disney musicals on stage always fall flat to me. Like a cheap costume party.
Ariel going from left to right on stage on rollerskates with her tail dangling between her legs like a dead beaver, people dressed up as spoon and fork in Beauty and the Beast, a 7 minute (street)dancebreak of people dressed up as hyena's in the Lion King still makes me shiver.
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Post by Dave25 on Feb 23, 2016 11:42:11 GMT
Here's a video to get in the mood of what to expect from her singing:
Although this video was from her glory days. I bet it's worse now.
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Post by Dave25 on Feb 22, 2016 15:08:32 GMT
It shouldn't be permitted to sell auditorium-inappropriate food. Nothing that stinks, nothing that rustles, nothing that crunches, nothing that leaves a mess all over the floor. (I can't help wondering if the idea of selling popcorn in cinemas came from someone who owned a carpet-cleaning service.) Crisps are right out. Also, drinks should come without ice, partly to prevent the noise of clattering ice cubes and partly because people are buying a drink, not a tub of solid water with bits of drink lurking in the gaps. Food and drinks should not be permitted at all in an auditorium.
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Post by Dave25 on Feb 16, 2016 11:08:33 GMT
2nd understudy Sooha Kim was on. Her accent was strong though - it was the first time I'd heard Kim performed by a non Filipina in all the times I've seen it. SO used to that slightly American twang. Interesting - it made Kim seem more "foreign" - which is a good thing for the story and the perception, but it was sometimes at the cost of diction - especially on the faster and/or more emotionally charged parts of the libretto. I thought she was ok, and agree she looked more "foreign", which I didn't quite like. It makes the role of Kim a bit more like "typical damsel in distress". Maybe who doesn't speak the same language, language barrier, it almost makes her too "generic" for the role of Kim. Like you can't really understand why Chris falls in love with her or thinks she is so special. She looks more like a Mimi than a Kim to me. You can't quite understand where their "connection" comes from. I love the fact that Eva (and Lea, and Tanya, and most other Kim's) have this aura that connects more. Like you can immediately see why Chris falls head over heels for her. Like they are meant to be together, I don't know how else to explain it.
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Post by Dave25 on Feb 16, 2016 10:51:19 GMT
This always confuses me a bit. That was exactly Kim's plan. 5 minutes before, Kim asks Ellen: "You must take Tam with you". And the Ellen says "NO, can't you see, it won't work, it can't be". And a minute later, when Chris comes in, she says "If it was only Tam I'd take him". Well, why didn't you say so to Kim? Then she wouldn't have killed herself. True - but then she's heard Chris's side of the story and much he feels he's messed up. Perhaps that helped her change her point of view...! So basically Kim and Ellen agree to take Tam to America, it's only Chris who goes against these 2 ladies
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Post by Dave25 on Feb 15, 2016 19:33:37 GMT
My understanding from the lyrics: Ellen: If it were only Tam I'd take him now. He is your child we'd make it work somehow. But Chris she still loves you, how can I have her near? Tam only - easy solution. Tam and Kim - no go. This always confuses me a bit. That was exactly Kim's plan. 5 minutes before, Kim asks Ellen: "You must take Tam with you". And then Ellen says "NO, can't you see, it won't work, it can't be". And a minute later, when Chris comes in, she says "If it was only Tam I'd take him". Well, why didn't you say so to Kim? Then she wouldn't have killed herself.
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Post by Dave25 on Feb 15, 2016 19:29:53 GMT
It is a wonderful show and such a shame it didn't have the legs to make it to a significant run in it's revival. My theory is tonally it is out of step with the current zeitgeist of light hearted, non-dramatic, fluffy family-friendly musicals... I think the show is simply too unknown to most people. There hasn't been a recording since the early nineties and no video material anywhere whatsoever. Shows like Phantom and Les Mis are much more "out there", which works as great promotion.
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Post by Dave25 on Feb 15, 2016 14:48:01 GMT
I will really miss the show. London won't be quite the same without it.
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Post by Dave25 on Feb 14, 2016 17:03:44 GMT
But this is not how Carrie normally sings, because how can one concentrate with a camera in the room?
Also, nice little song for your grandchildren, but isn't she just Eponine number 97 in the West End production? I'm sorry, her aura just screams "self-indulgence" and "insecurity" to me.
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Post by Dave25 on Feb 14, 2016 14:39:56 GMT
Both flashmobs make me emotional. In a different way.
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Post by Dave25 on Feb 14, 2016 12:27:26 GMT
she knows she's important to a lot of people, but their nuttiness is causing problems, so she needed to address it. If you have problems with your fans, then take another exit or keep it short and walk away. Don't pretend to be something else. "I love you all if you just stand on the left of Stage Door, so you, my fans, don't block all my beloved colleagues, look what a big heart I have, and by the way, don't think of holding me up, because I have a party to go to." Sounds like a very troubled girl to me.
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Post by Dave25 on Feb 13, 2016 17:18:57 GMT
That article reads: "Look producers and people in the business, I am a very serious star that has fans. I know that every person on the West End ever had to deal with this after every show, but I just like to write an article about it, just in case you didn't know I have fans. Just in case people in the business wouldn't realize that there were actually 15 fans standing there during my last shows of les Mis. Hopefully you will see me as a star because of this" to me.
"Can I please have a moment to ask everybody's attention, can you please stand on the left side so I can get to you quicker and so that my beloved colleagues won't be blocked by my fans".....Get out of here.
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Post by Dave25 on Feb 11, 2016 16:59:15 GMT
Yes - I just got an email about it too. What are the bets of them installing Idina Menzel for the opening run? I know she's significantly older than Elsa is meant to be but.. Disney. I don't think even Disney could get away with that. I don't think Menzel could get away with that, vocally that is.
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Post by Dave25 on Feb 6, 2016 14:35:00 GMT
Any news on the filming?
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Post by Dave25 on Jan 30, 2016 13:22:57 GMT
I hope they scale it up a bit for the Broadway version, I feel the sets are too simple and not intimate enough at times. It looks like a tour set indeed, with some props on an empty black stage.
"Dreamland" is just a black stage with a little round piece in the middle and some chairs on stage.
"Last night of the world" is a black hole in the show to me now, I really don't understand why is has to take place on the back of the tiny turning Dreamland bar.
I also don't like the "Sun and moon" and "why god why" sets, which are also just a black stage with the bed upstairs in the steel pipe construction.
Same goes for "Room 317" just a chair and a bed on an empty black stage.
I really feel this show benefits enormously from the smaller stages rolling down the actual stage. It made it much more intimate and dynamic (Dreamland, Kim's bedroom, last night of the world, back in town, room 317, etc). It made the show look more interesting as they could play with it, walk around it, sometimes in front of it, which meant a different location (I still taste your kisses, when the set was slowly moving backwards, also in Dreamland and last night of the world).
I think that important scenes such as Kim and Chris' first night and I still taste your kisses actually happen centre stage and not somewhere way up in the back and that certain scenes such as sun and moon and lnotw are not in some kind of stockroom or on the street. Also, I miss the stage on the stage in Dreamland when the girls present themselves, now they are just standing on a prop chair. This "toning down" of the show also tones down the impact and emotions for me, therefore this production is less raw. Because when I see "last night of the world", I want to feel the illusion of what Kim and Chris feel, I want a romantic atmosphere, with orange, better than life lighting, a fan on the bamboo ceiling, a muggy feel and a bed with a gently flowing mosquito net, this is their fantasy, a storage room won't make the emotions of the scene more real for me. The director and Cameron really need to adjust their views of what "real and raw emotion" in theatre as well as in film actually means. There is much more you can use to heighten emotions for the audience. Toning everything down and pretend it is more raw is not the solution.
This is also the big mistake they made in the Les Mis film, which is basically a theatrical performance on a pavement. I hope that when they make a Miss Saigon film they go all the way with the execution of the scenes. For example after Kim shoots Thuy, don't do it in an alley or storage room between a bin and a clothes line. Make it theatrical, it is the end of Kim's world in her mind, so show it, create a haunting fantasy space with a choir of ghosts singing "This is the hour". Etc.
Theatre and film are a triumph of the fantasy. Especially with musical which should never be too literal, because per definition it is not. (sung thoughts etc).
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Post by Dave25 on Jan 29, 2016 0:57:50 GMT
Everything sounds positive - however curious all the same. I personally think the current cast is stronger than the original one, overall. I think Rachelle Ann go as Gigi and Kwan Ho Hong as Thuy were better than the current cast. I loved Alistair Brammer and I love Chris Peluso, very different but both good. It's mainly Ellen that was a total miscast in the original revival cast. Edit: If they spend 2 days to shoot extra material with the original cast, I hope they fix the wrong melody lines of Eva too. I mean, this is the chance to do certain parts justice and use multiple takes.
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Post by Dave25 on Jan 28, 2016 18:42:00 GMT
Now that makes much more sense. It looks like they are creating a professional recording then.
I wonder what they thought was missing from the 25th Anniversary filmed performance, maybe some close-ups?
Also, there is almost a year in between then and now, do the actors still look the same? Haircut, weight, etc. And the actors who left the show a while ago, were they just able to deliver the same performance as back then without any rehearsal?
Anyway, it's good that they can promote this as the 25th Anniversay Gala performance, with the guest performances of Lea etc as bonus feature. Even though they might use more of the newly filmed material.
They probably keep this recording secret until after the Broadway revival, but I personally think it will only boost the ticket sales, just like the Les Mis and Phantom 25th gala performances on dvd.
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Post by Dave25 on Jan 27, 2016 23:11:03 GMT
I think Chris Peluso is great so I would love to see him on a recording with Eva and Jon Jon, also the Ellen is much better than the original. The only thing missing would be Rachelle Ann Go as Gigi, but the girl playing her now is fine too.
I truly hope this will be released on dvd at some point.
Does anyone know more about how it's filmed? Did they film the whole show or just certain scenes? Did they film an actual performance too (with audience) and are they using the 2 recording days for close-ups or more polished shots?
Anyone?
Also, I thought they had filmed the whole 25th anniversary performance too.
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