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Post by Jan on Mar 30, 2023 15:00:31 GMT
It was the phone call from A View From The Bridge wasn't it. On which topic, say you didn't know who had directed this and had to guess - you could equally well have thought it was Simona Stone, Robert Icke or Ivo van Hove, it was in the Toneelgroep Amsterdam house style. It doesn't reflect much credit on the UK subsidised sector that none of those three has a permanent role here.
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Post by londonpostie on Mar 30, 2023 15:14:48 GMT
I certainly didn't see it as some sort of acerbic attack on the Lefty Elite. Was it even explained where their politics laid or are we just meant to assume they were Lefties because they were intelligent, had posh accents and a nice home whereas most Tory politicians live in dilapidated council flats and talk like Peter Kay? I fail to see how the events that take place would've been handled any differently by a family with different socio economic or political views. Love (with a side order of trauma) makes people crazy no matter how much food you have in the fridge or if your fridge is in your kitchen or your bedroom. Events like these don't take place - it's a modern take on Greek parables (60 year old mother and daughter with same man, gets pregnant ... mother goes to Morocco to slit her own throat, etc, etc, etc)
As for their politics, there might be a clue in her job.
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Post by intoanewlife on Mar 30, 2023 15:24:30 GMT
It was the phone call from A View From The Bridge wasn't it. On which topic, say you didn't know who had directed this and had to guess - you could equally well have thought it was Simona Stone, Robert Icke or Ivo van Hove, it was in the Toneelgroep Amsterdam house style. It doesn't reflect much credit on the UK subsidised sector that none of those three has a permanent role here. I don't know what you're quoting for the first line lol I think Stone and Ivo have similarities definitely, I have only seen 1984 from Icke, not so familiar with his work. I find Ivo a little patchy, some things I've loved and others not so much. I think Stone is a FAR better writer though and his adaptations are far more interesting. He also does not do all the bells and whistles Ivo does and the focus is more on the actors and their performances. I have loved everything I have seen by him. I don't think any of them would agree to doing that especially considering how things are here atm. Why would they limit themselves when they have the clout to do as they please anywhere in the world?
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Post by intoanewlife on Mar 30, 2023 15:25:23 GMT
I certainly didn't see it as some sort of acerbic attack on the Lefty Elite. Was it even explained where their politics laid or are we just meant to assume they were Lefties because they were intelligent, had posh accents and a nice home whereas most Tory politicians live in dilapidated council flats and talk like Peter Kay? I fail to see how the events that take place would've been handled any differently by a family with different socio economic or political views. Love (with a side order of trauma) makes people crazy no matter how much food you have in the fridge or if your fridge is in your kitchen or your bedroom. Events like these don't take place
You must live a very sheltered existence...you've never seen Jeremy Kyle or Jerry Springer?
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Post by intoanewlife on Mar 30, 2023 15:29:58 GMT
I certainly didn't see it as some sort of acerbic attack on the Lefty Elite. Was it even explained where their politics laid or are we just meant to assume they were Lefties because they were intelligent, had posh accents and a nice home whereas most Tory politicians live in dilapidated council flats and talk like Peter Kay? I fail to see how the events that take place would've been handled any differently by a family with different socio economic or political views. Love (with a side order of trauma) makes people crazy no matter how much food you have in the fridge or if your fridge is in your kitchen or your bedroom.
As for their politics, there might be a clue in her job.
I believe I must've missed this in the blind fury of the woman beside me texting for the first 15 mins.
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Post by londonpostie on Mar 30, 2023 15:31:59 GMT
Of course, that'll be it ..
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Post by Jan on Mar 30, 2023 15:32:11 GMT
It was the phone call from A View From The Bridge wasn't it. On which topic, say you didn't know who had directed this and had to guess - you could equally well have thought it was Simona Stone, Robert Icke or Ivo van Hove, it was in the Toneelgroep Amsterdam house style. It doesn't reflect much credit on the UK subsidised sector that none of those three has a permanent role here. I don't know what you're quoting for the first line lol .. I don't think any of them would agree to doing that especially considering how things are here atm. Why would they limit themselves when they have the clout to do as they please anywhere in the world? I was commenting on your spoilered comment about the phone call. It is exactly the same phone call with the same motivation as in A View... van Hove, Stone and Icke are all formally attached to the Toneelgroep Amsterdam so they are obviously prepared to limit themselves in some way.
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Post by intoanewlife on Mar 30, 2023 15:38:49 GMT
I don't know what you're quoting for the first line lol .. I don't think any of them would agree to doing that especially considering how things are here atm. Why would they limit themselves when they have the clout to do as they please anywhere in the world? I was commenting on your spoilered comment about the phone call. It is exactly the same phone call with the same motivation as in A View... van Hove, Stone and Icke are all formally attached to the Toneelgroep Amsterdam so they are obviously prepared to limit themselves in some way. Ah ok...I saw that about 10 years ago so don't really remember it. I think Stone does stuff in Australia as well and the company seems to tour a bit too. They certainly keep themselves busy.
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Post by intoanewlife on Mar 30, 2023 15:40:31 GMT
Of course, that'll be it .. *shrugs It was literally the first thing I asked my other half on the way out and he didn't know either.
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Post by londonpostie on Mar 30, 2023 16:34:06 GMT
Of course, that'll be it .. *shrugs It was literally the first thing I asked my other half on the way out and he didn't know either. It sounds like you heard the phone call which, IIRC, comes after the interval (the tip off). That phone call is between a Shadow minister and her counterpart. There were numerous references to her job, and the family's political orientation, before and after the interval.
It's front and centre of the play. There is an entire, long, scene based solely on her forced resignation.
Fwiw, it's just a simple point. I am not going to engage with the rest of your original post.
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Post by intoanewlife on Mar 30, 2023 17:31:40 GMT
*shrugs It was literally the first thing I asked my other half on the way out and he didn't know either. It sounds like you heard the phone call which, IIRC, comes after the interval (the tip off). That phone call is between a Shadow minister and her counterpart. There were numerous references to her job, and the family's political orientation, before and after the interval.
It's front and centre of the play. There is an entire, long, scene based solely on her forced resignation.
Fwiw, it's just a simple point. I am not going to engage with the rest of your original post.
Yup, I remember all those things but I still don't remember a specific reference or are you just saying 'shadow minister' is the only real reference? If so then it is my mistake for not making that rather obvious connection. Maybe because I wasn't looking for it and it wasn't really that important to what was going on, it didn't sink in. I agree with a lot of stuff in your earlier review, but I just didn't read her character as being that way as written here. Those women exist (I work in tv they are everywhere, I know them well and can spot them at 100 paces) but she did not strike me as being one of them. Uppity and self-entitled yes...but she is certainly not a psychopath and if she is meant to be then the writing fails completely. I also don't believe that that effects what happens in the play anyways, as I stated earlier. Anyways, lets just agree it's a great play and production
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Post by intoanewlife on Mar 30, 2023 18:00:47 GMT
Stone on writing Helen.... Stone will use it to pull aside the invisibility cloak that enfolds women as they slide towards the menopause, in one of the great cultural injustices of the modern age. “I’ve spent a lot of time talking to and reflecting on postmenopausal women who feel eradicated,” he says. “They realise they’re not being seen any more, and that their sexuality has been deleted from the public eye. There have, of course, been all sorts of hormonal changes, but their sexuality doesn’t feel like it has diminished, and in some cases it’s increased. But that feels very at odds with the way we talk about potency. And that word in itself has implications of reproductivity in it, so in some ways it can’t even be applied metaphorically to a woman who is no longer capable of reproduction.” Isn’t it astonishing, he adds, that even in the modern world the sexual narrative is still somehow linked to heterosexual reproduction. “But of course, reproduction is inherently heterosexual, in its cliched, old-fashioned connotation. So it all becomes very heteronormative and very, very patriarchal, just in the casual way that that world talks about and represents and celebrates sexuality in 50-plus women.” www.theguardian.com/stage/2023/jan/21/director-simon-stone-my-heroes-are-women-phaedra-janet-mcteer-national-theatre-billie-piper-yermaHe’s aware that in the current culture wars around gender and patriarchal oppression, this is contested territory. “I have long hair but I also have a massive beard and I’m in a heterosexual relationship. It’s really difficult to talk about because it’s such a sensitive topic for so many people for various different reasons. But my heroes are women. And when you’re writing plays with heroes in them, you want to be able to write one that you really respect and admire. I find that easier to do with women than I do with men.” One result of this, he admits, is that “my men are very attenuated. If you studied all of my plays, you would always see a man who is unresolved, underdeveloped and unfinished, who doesn’t have the paradoxical nuance that his female counterpart has, because that’s my experience of masculinity: it is attenuated.” “I was so interested in the idea of a woman who falls in love with a younger man and discovers her desire again – the excitement and rush of such a loss of control, and the idea that you could have a second chance in life,” says Stone. “Of course it’s a crazy act of amour fou, but like all of the Greek myths it’s an exorcism of the self-destructive potential in all of us.”
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Post by beckmesser on Mar 30, 2023 23:57:49 GMT
First post - Whatever Phaedra was, it wasn't Phaedra. I've seen versions by Euripedes, Seneca and Racine (with an imperious Diana Rigg) and Stone's was so far removed from these classic texts as to be a pastiche. Despite some fine performances, the 'comedy' was ill-judged - resorting to stealing a famous line from Fawlty Towers at one point, and the production was distant, as though I was watching it virtually. Maybe the idea was to have the audience as voyeurs of some disaster reality show, but I left feeling disappointed and underwhelmed. Thankfully I saw Medea at Soho Place a couple of weeks later, which was as brilliant and engrossing as Phaedra was not.
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Post by Jan on Mar 31, 2023 6:27:19 GMT
First post - Whatever Phaedra was, it wasn't Phaedra. I've seen versions by Euripedes, Seneca and Racine (with an imperious Diana Rigg) Where did you see the Seneca version ?
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Post by alessia on Apr 2, 2023 7:05:52 GMT
I saw the evening performance yesterday and thought it was great. I had not seen any versions of the story before, and avoided reviews. I wasn't prepared for the super fast delivery at the beginning, and it was v hard to follow but I was immediately gripped and entertained. I felt that the family all talking over each other was believable and skillfully done. The acting was spot on throughout. The dark bits when they changed the set didn't bother me at all although sitting in the front row, the subtitles were a little high and hard to read- the last bit in French/Arabic was also very hard to follow due to the fast delivery but the two actors were amazing. I have probably missed a few words here but hopefully I got the gist of it. I prefer the first half to the second (if anything the second half felt too short!) and I was a little disappointed in the ending. Spoilers (sorry don't know how to hide) : Helen had already ruined her career and family so was it needed to end in that way? It seemed over the top although I do get that it's supposed to be a Greek tragedy so in that sense it has to end in death as per canon...similarly, I also get why she gets all the blame (the Moroccan wife's speech, the husband saying he will stop her from seeing her children?) while Sofiane the philanderer is the innocent victim-the wife not even bothered when told he has impregnated another woman 8 months ago. Helen the older woman is to be everyone's scapegoat (sigh, eyeroll). Having seen the Complicité show earlier in the afternoon, I feel I've had a double dose of the same topics, although with different outcomes. Overall a great theatre day.
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Post by solotheatregoer on Apr 2, 2023 13:19:28 GMT
Pleasantly surprised by this. I had a free afternoon during my theatre binge week in London and decided to book this. Very funny (especially the restaurant scene) but as many have said before, some scenes are very fast paced and sometimes difficult to follow. I guess this was the intent though, to demonstrate the chaos and power dynamics within the family. I also had no problems with the subtitles once I eventually discovered they were projected at the bottom of the stage too.
I thought the ending was a little rushed to make Janet McTeer's suicide believable but overall I really enjoyed this. She definitely deserves her Olivier nomination.
I was, however, sat next to an elderly couple who during the interval did nothing but complain about the actors speaking over one another, the amount of shouting and how Sofiane 'would be more desirable if he were taller'! They contemplated leaving but ended up staying. Think they were expecting a more 'traditional' Greek tragedy production and not a modern twist by the sounds of it.
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Post by teamyali on Jun 6, 2023 12:05:09 GMT
Phaedra was just added at NT at Home. That was quick! At first I’ve thought it’s gonna be for NT Live, given that Phèdre was its very first cinema broadcast a decade ago, but at least this has a further life too.
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Post by ncbears on Dec 21, 2023 17:29:17 GMT
The set changes:
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