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Post by inthenose on Mar 28, 2022 11:35:07 GMT
So if you or someone you know made a joke I (or my partner) found offensive, I would be in the right to give you a smack across the face? Are you male or female? If I made a joke that deeply, personally offensive about a potentially debilitating physical condition, to your face, either in private but even worse in front of a crowd, and you are someone of the same sex and physical build to me then yes, you'd be perfectly justified in responding by slapping me in the face. I respectfully disagree for a number of reasons, so let's leave that there. Thank you for the response.
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Post by stuartmcd on Mar 28, 2022 11:41:40 GMT
The thing is as well that nobody would even be talking about the joke if it wasn’t for the incident. I didn’t know that Jada had Alopecia before this and by the look of Twitter a lot of other people didn’t know either. So of course Jada had every right to take the joke personally and be offended by it but Will’s actions only brought more attention to the joke.
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Post by ruthieh on Mar 28, 2022 11:48:18 GMT
Put simply, two wrongs don’t make a right!
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Post by oxfordsimon on Mar 28, 2022 11:53:54 GMT
Chris Rock has declined to make this a police matter. Understandable in so many ways.
I realise that the Academy would have had to act very quickly to make this happen but it was very wrong to allow a person who had just assaulted someone in front of a global audience to be allowed a platform to speak at that same event.
I would have still have confirmed the result as that is what the Academy voters had determined but Smith should have been removed from the audience and his award collected by someone else and delivered to him later.
Physical violence is never the answer under these circumstances. Never.
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Post by crowblack on Mar 28, 2022 12:14:58 GMT
Put simply, two wrongs don’t make a right! I agree. But they sort of cancel each other out, and it will hopefully be a watershed moment that jolts the ceremony regarding the comments men think it's OK to make about women and makes it more genteel 'going forward'. It's bizarre that an awards ceremony that in its actual awards tries to make a point about being socially 'progressive' towards groups who have historically been marginalised, choses to host it in this manner.
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Post by oxfordsimon on Mar 28, 2022 12:32:28 GMT
We all know that freedom of speech does not mean freedom from repercussions. But we also have seen the 'offensive' comedy has been tested in the courts and in most cases, the right of the comedian to push boundaries has been upheld.
Smith's violence last night has taken the focus away from what Chris Rock said.
In terms of outrageous comedy, this joke was in poor taste and possibly informed by personal animus between them. But it really doesn't come close to meeting any sort of bar whereby we should be seeking to censor.
If the Smith family had walked out of the ceremony, that would have made a more powerful statement. But violence was the chosen response and placed all the attention on that.
Chris Rock is not a comedian I like or find hugely funny. But his roast style humour is his trademark and most people are able to brush it off for what it is.
Assaulting him was not the right response. It never will be the right response.
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Post by crowblack on Mar 28, 2022 12:40:38 GMT
We all know that freedom of speech does not mean freedom from repercussions. But we also have seen the 'offensive' comedy has been tested in the courts and in most cases, the right of the comedian to push boundaries has been upheld. There is a big difference between going to a comedy gig or watching a recorded 'special', where you know the nature of the performer's jokes, you are prepared for some to be in bad taste or offensive, and you know that sitting in the front row may make you the butt of an off-colour joke, and this. The Oscars is an industry awards ceremony about films, not a stand up comedy show. If you are in the industry and up for an award, or the family of someone who is, it is expected that you have to attend. If you are interested in film and a fan of those who are up for awards, or even just like frocks, you'll be watching it. So why subject that audience to a known-to-be 'controversial' and 'edgy' stand up comedian as host? The audience aren't given any choice here. It's not about censorship. It's about what's appropriate for this type of show.
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Post by dan28 on Mar 28, 2022 12:52:58 GMT
Crow, you don't physically violate or assault other people, no matter what they say. A person with character is above that. There is a huge gap between a remark and physical violence. Please learn to understand that.
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Post by oxfordsimon on Mar 28, 2022 12:54:47 GMT
Without a broad range of hosts and presenters, awards ceremonies become a very dull evening of self congratulatory moments for incredibly privileged people. If you want to attract audiences around the globe for a celebration of a year in cinema then you need to make it an event.
Chris Rock was not going full force last night compared to his own gigs. He didn't even come close to that or the sort of lines that Ricky Gervais employed when he has hosted awards ceremonies.
I have never sought to deny that the joke was in poor taste. But I will defend Rock's right to make such a remark at such an event.
Comedy had always pushed boundaries even at the Oscars. And that should continue.
What you might not find funny or entertaining is entirely your right. But the Oscars should be hosted and presented by those at the top of their career in a way that helps those 4 hours feel like a real event. That includes comedians like Chris Rock.
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Post by stuartmcd on Mar 28, 2022 12:59:12 GMT
We all know that freedom of speech does not mean freedom from repercussions. But we also have seen the 'offensive' comedy has been tested in the courts and in most cases, the right of the comedian to push boundaries has been upheld. There is a big difference between going to a comedy gig or watching a recorded 'special', where you know the nature of the performer's jokes, you are prepared for some to be in bad taste or offensive, and you know that sitting in the front row may make you the butt of an off-colour joke, and this. The Oscars is an industry awards ceremony about films, not a stand up comedy show. If you are in the industry and up for an award, or the family of someone who is, it is expected that you have to attend. If you are interested in film and a fan of those who are up for awards, or even just like frocks, you'll be watching it. So why subject that audience to a known-to-be 'controversial' and 'edgy' stand up comedian as host? The audience aren't given any choice here. It's not about censorship. It's about what's appropriate for this type of show. The appropriateness of Chris Rock’s humour and joke can be debated. And the people on the receiving end of that joke have every right to be offended. But Will Smith’s reaction is I think pretty indefensible and I’m shocked that he was then simply allowed to sit back down and enjoy the rest of his evening like nothing happened.
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Post by crowblack on Mar 28, 2022 13:22:31 GMT
Crow, you don't physically violate or assault other people, no matter what they say. A person with character is above that. There is a huge gap between a remark and physical violence. Please learn to understand that. God, how patronising! 'Sticks and stones' is a luxury belief. Try walking in other people's shoes for a bit.
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Post by Dawnstar on Mar 28, 2022 13:32:24 GMT
Isn't Smith supposed to be a role model for boys/young men, especially black ones? What sort of message is he sending that group, a group that is already disproportionately likely to be involved in violence.
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Post by christya on Mar 28, 2022 13:47:51 GMT
If Will Smith had kept his cool and simply spoken about it afterwards, either mentioning it in his speech or even speaking to Chris Rock afterwards, any conversation today would be about how Rock was a bit of an arse and the joke was not cool. Instead, not only is that not the conversation, but various things about the couples' personal life are being raked out. Smith made the whole thing worse than it needed to be, for everyone involved. He should have been asked to leave, but I expect he has a lot of power in Hollywood.
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Mar 28, 2022 13:50:35 GMT
Isn't Smith supposed to be a role model for boys/young men, especially black ones? What sort of message is he sending that group, a group that is already disproportionately likely to be involved in violence. Definitely a violent crime. Police have dusted Chris Rock and found fresh prints
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Post by sph on Mar 28, 2022 13:56:33 GMT
I really don't understand why some people here are so in favour of using violence to solve problems, but whatever.
The point is, whether or not people think it's an "acceptable response", the actual law is fortunately a lot more clear. And what Smith did was assault. And on live TV in front of millions. It was wrong and to be honest I'm very disappointed that the Academy Awards allowed the entire thing to go completely unchallenged.
The whole thing was swept under a rug and the show carried on while everyone at home, and in the audience, sat there stunned. He should have been removed and someone else should have accepted his award on his behalf.
The joke was not good. It was tasteless and unfortunate, but not the worst I've ever heard. Comedians do push the boundaries sometimes but this wasn't terrible in the scheme of things. There are certainly times in my life when a person has made a cruel joke, or even just plain insulted me to my face - and I haven't hit them!
A man hitting someone else to "defend a woman's honour" is especially problematic. What right does he have? And did she WANT him to do that? She's an independent person. This is 2022! Ridiculous, outdated behaviour.
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Post by jojo on Mar 28, 2022 14:34:31 GMT
Crow, you don't physically violate or assault other people, no matter what they say. A person with character is above that. There is a huge gap between a remark and physical violence. Please learn to understand that. God, how patronising! 'Sticks and stones' is a luxury belief. Try walking in other people's shoes for a bit. I think it's the other way around. There's no doubt that deliberately cruel, or even careless words, can be hurtful. But something intended as a joke, no matter how ill-advised, does not justify assault. I understand why Jada would be upset, but the joke was based on comparing her to an iconic and bad-ass action character. The odds are he naively thought she'd be cool with it. There are a number of things that bug me about this, but one of them is that Smith is an articulate man. He's in his 50s and I've heard no-one say anything about him having had a couple of drinks too many. Who knows what he had in mind when he left his seat, but he had enough time to think of something to say by the time he got to Chris. Perhaps he originally planned to punch him, and it got downgraded, thankfully, to a slap. I agree that the ceremony organisers should have removed him from the room and had someone collect his Oscar on his behalf, but I don't suppose anyone ever thought of this eventuality when they did their contingency planning. There's no need to press charges IMO. The whole world saw what he did, and those who made excuses won't change their mind because the legal system confirms it's assault.
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Post by poster J on Mar 28, 2022 15:54:11 GMT
We all know that freedom of speech does not mean freedom from repercussions. But we also have seen the 'offensive' comedy has been tested in the courts and in most cases, the right of the comedian to push boundaries has been upheld. There is a big difference between going to a comedy gig or watching a recorded 'special', where you know the nature of the performer's jokes, you are prepared for some to be in bad taste or offensive, and you know that sitting in the front row may make you the butt of an off-colour joke, and this. The Oscars is an industry awards ceremony about films, not a stand up comedy show. If you are in the industry and up for an award, or the family of someone who is, it is expected that you have to attend. If you are interested in film and a fan of those who are up for awards, or even just like frocks, you'll be watching it. So why subject that audience to a known-to-be 'controversial' and 'edgy' stand up comedian as host? The audience aren't given any choice here. It's not about censorship. It's about what's appropriate for this type of show. Everyone going to the Oscars knows they are in for a potential roasting from the hosts or presenters, it has happened for years, including when Rock himself presented a few years ago.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2022 16:26:37 GMT
In hindsight if Will had shouted something like "Say that again" or "Say it to my face" it would have done him a lot less damage. But then he risks Chris Rock coming back with a sharp one liner. Also if they walk out CR may well have made a parting remark after them.
Also CR pitched the joke wrong as Willow Smith also has very short/Army haircut. If he'd say hey Will are Jada and Willow both up for GI Jane role then it widens the joke.
The joke about her hair loss is a fine line, effects of chemo causing it I'd say no go, baldness there have been jokes before but would a toupee or wig be called out publically?
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Post by vickyg on Mar 28, 2022 17:00:52 GMT
If this is what Will Smith is willing to do on stage in front of millions of people worldwide, just imagine what he is capable of behind closed doors. The thought that he physically assaulted someone on stage, no matter what he felt were mitigating factors, and was allowed to remain at the event is just astonishing to me. You really can get away with anything if you're famous enough, even with the world watching on.
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Mar 28, 2022 17:04:23 GMT
Let's be honest, with the whole 'comedy roast' culture that's purposely offensive, someone was gonna get a slap eventually. Just a shame it wasn't Gervais
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Post by Phantom of London on Mar 28, 2022 17:15:54 GMT
Physical violence isn’t the answer, however saying that Will Smith wife looked a G.I. Is terrible insult in itself, especially as she is suffering from the medical condition alopecia. This can be very tough for a lady.
Verbal assault can be as/or more so damaging than physical violence and should be called out as reprehensible.
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Post by sph on Mar 28, 2022 17:29:13 GMT
The way he swaggered up, took his swing, swaggered back down. This wasn't about rage, it was about ego. It was about going up and puffing out his chest and acting the "big man" on "behalf" of his wife. The Oscars just completely normalised an act of violence in front of the entire world. Is that going to be ok now to some people? Getting up on stage and decking a comedian whenever they make a bad joke at a gig?
Then he excuses it as an act of love? No one should have given that award a standing ovation.
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Post by jojo on Mar 28, 2022 17:31:35 GMT
In hindsight if Will had shouted something like "Say that again" or "Say it to my face" it would have done him a lot less damage. But then he risks Chris Rock coming back with a sharp one liner. Also if they walk out CR may well have made a parting remark after them. Also CR pitched the joke wrong as Willow Smith also has very short/Army haircut. If he'd say hey Will are Jada and Willow both up for GI Jane role then it widens the joke. The joke about her hair loss is a fine line, effects of chemo causing it I'd say no go, baldness there have been jokes before but would a toupee or wig be called out publically? From what I can gather, the hair loss is not due to any particular illness, as she had various checks, but likely due to physical damage from too much tension to the roots in certain hair styles. Stress may also be a factor, or at the very least stress is a consequence. She also shaved her hair off in an Instagram post, which doesn't mean she's cool with it, or that it gives everyone a green light to say what they like, but does mean she chose to make it a public talking point. But this is where it gets complicated. Just because you are prepared to make a joke about your own 'imperfections' doesn't mean you are OK with someone else doing the same. So I maintain she is entitled to be upset by it getting a mention as part of a joke. Equally, I can totally see why Chris Rock wouldn't realise she would be upset by it. I rather suspect that there's a lot more to it than the joke itself. I've tried to avoid it as best I can, because what I have seen is cringe, but I know Jada herself has instigated a lot of talk about them and their open marriage, or whatever it is. Not that it excuses violence either, but Smith has always come across as a good guy, or at least someone skilled at managing his public image. The more I think about it, the more I think his reaction was about way more than a bad joke.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2022 17:57:56 GMT
Good points JoJo we don't know what the past history is between Chris, Will and Jada. I'd always thought stress or trauma can cause alopecia. Matt Lucas puts his down to being hit by a car. Olumpic Gold Medalist Duncan Goodhew's was down to him falling out of a tree I seem to remember. Gail Porter's was due to stress/issues in her life/her marriage breaking down.
I once worked with a chap in the mid 1990's who was then in his mid 50's and still had a good head of hair. But he told me and showed me photos of when he'd suffered from it in the 1960's and was totally bald.
As JoJo said also there must be more too it, Will who has always had pretty good PR and has been at the top for over 30 years on the crowning night of his career to do this. There is something deeper. Some actors are well known for having a temper and you could imagine them doing it but Will would be way down any list if you said who'd put one on somebody at an awards show.
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Post by inthenose on Mar 28, 2022 18:15:03 GMT
There is a big difference between going to a comedy gig or watching a recorded 'special', where you know the nature of the performer's jokes, you are prepared for some to be in bad taste or offensive, and you know that sitting in the front row may make you the butt of an off-colour joke, and this. The Oscars is an industry awards ceremony about films, not a stand up comedy show. If you are in the industry and up for an award, or the family of someone who is, it is expected that you have to attend. If you are interested in film and a fan of those who are up for awards, or even just like frocks, you'll be watching it. So why subject that audience to a known-to-be 'controversial' and 'edgy' stand up comedian as host? The audience aren't given any choice here. It's not about censorship. It's about what's appropriate for this type of show. Everyone going to the Oscars knows they are in for a potential roasting from the hosts or presenters, it has happened for years, including when Rock himself presented a few years ago. It's nice to agree with you for a change, shows there's no malice in how often we seem to disagree about everything! 🤣
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Post by inthenose on Mar 28, 2022 18:23:00 GMT
Let's be honest, with the whole 'comedy roast' culture that's purposely offensive, someone was gonna get a slap eventually. Just a shame it wasn't Gervais Ricky is a genius and one of the funniest people I've ever worked with. There is not a malicious bone in the man's body and he does an awful lot behind the scenes that people don't see. I know you might not believe me, but I've worked on some of Ricky's shows and he is one of the classiest and most giving stars I've dealt with. A few of the most famous "nice guy" comedian celebrities (one southern, one very northern) have abhorrent views they actually believe, rather than jokes they tell on a stage for shock/laughs. It's funny how the world works. Specifically on your point, Ricky Gervais clearly loathes the rich, white, male dominated Hollywood scene and frankly he talks more sense than most. He is an outsider to it all - by choice. That's why his perfect laser incision was so lauded, he isn't "one of them".
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Post by inthenose on Mar 28, 2022 18:34:52 GMT
Good points JoJo we don't know what the past history is between Chris, Will and Jada. I'd always thought stress or trauma can cause alopecia. Matt Lucas puts his down to being hit by a car. Olumpic Gold Medalist Duncan Goodhew's was down to him falling out of a tree I seem to remember. Gail Porter's was due to stress/issues in her life/her marriage breaking down. I once worked with a chap in the mid 1990's who was then in his mid 50's and still had a good head of hair. But he told me and showed me photos of when he'd suffered from it in the 1960's and was totally bald. As JoJo said also there must be more too it, Will who has always had pretty good PR and has been at the top for over 30 years on the crowning night of his career to do this. There is something deeper. Some actors are well known for having a temper and you could imagine them doing it but Will would be way down any list if you said who'd put one on somebody at an awards show. Well, there was this (where I think Will Smith was perfectly entitled to react the way he did, actually) but it was a bit of a slip of the mask. (If mod could embed I'd be grateful)
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Post by marob on Mar 28, 2022 18:51:31 GMT
I find it interesting reading so many comments about how likeable and nice Will Smith is, as I’ve always thought there’s something about him and his family that comes across as incredibly conceited.
The TV producers or Academy or whoever runs the show should have chucked him out. The fact they didn’t and then gave him an award is more shocking than the actual slap. Spineless sycophants.
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Post by oxfordsimon on Mar 28, 2022 18:55:26 GMT
The standing ovation when he collected his award is also hard to forgive. Shows how entitled that group is in reality.
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Post by oxfordsimon on Mar 28, 2022 19:46:35 GMT
Thankfully the Academy have started taking this seriously. So an investigation is to be launched.
I have no idea what sanctions they might impose. But hopefully it will be more than a slap on the wrist.
I don't think they should remove his Oscar. But a ban from being nominated for a number of years and a ban from attending any future ceremony should certainly be options.
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