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Post by Jon on Nov 4, 2022 13:37:46 GMT
Hampstead and ENO losing funding TBH wasn't a shock but Donmar is a little more surprising.
I would say losing NPO status and funding does not mean they'll close up shop, you only have to look at the Orange Tree to see how an organisation can thrive without ACE. I assume the Donmar and Hampstead will get support to transition to a new funding model.
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Post by mkb on Nov 4, 2022 14:13:09 GMT
I love Blackpool and its Illuminations, but by what measure are these arts-funding worthy? Given that this light show has managed its finances for nearly 150 years and this is the first time it has had this funding, what has changed?
Seems like an entirely political decision to reward their newly-Tory voters.
I live in a similar former Labour, now Tory, area. Perhaps I should have submitted an application for my Xmas decorations?
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Post by Jon on Nov 4, 2022 14:29:02 GMT
I love Blackpool and its Illuminations, but by what measure are these arts-funding worthy? Given that this light show has managed its finances for nearly 150 years and this is the first time it has had this funding, what has changed? Seems like an entirely political decision to reward their newly-Tory voters. I live in a similar former Labour, now Tory, area. Perhaps I should have submitted an application for my Xmas decorations? It's possible that the illuminations are in need of repair and refurbishing and thus ACE funding was partly needed.
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Post by TallPaul on Nov 4, 2022 15:06:18 GMT
Re Blackpool:
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Post by Jan on Nov 4, 2022 15:17:51 GMT
Sadiq Khan: “A strong London equals a strong UK that’s why I am urging the government to think again and reconsider the consequences of these detrimental cuts.”
Ha ha. Not just England but the entire UK benefits from funding London preferentially ! Actually even in this new funding round about a third of the total spend is in London.
Does anyone know by how much the total ACE budget has been increased in this round ? Norris says it has but I can’t see the exact figures.
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Post by Jon on Nov 4, 2022 15:26:24 GMT
Sadiq Khan: “A strong London equals a strong UK that’s why I am urging the government to think again and reconsider the consequences of these detrimental cuts.” Ha ha. Not just England but the entire UK benefits from funding London preferentially ! Actually even in this new funding round about a third of the total spend is in London. Does anyone know by how much the total ACE budget has been increased in this round ? Norris says it has but I can’t see the exact figures. I swear Sadiq Khan used that phrase during the whole TfL funding situation. I say this as someone who likes him generally but he doesn't engage brain before speaking sometimes.
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Post by n1david on Nov 4, 2022 15:49:27 GMT
Does anyone know by how much the total ACE budget has been increased in this round ? Norris says it has but I can’t see the exact figures. According to the spreadsheet, total spend went from £377m to £446m Spend in London went from £146.7m to £152m, a reduction from 39% to 34% of total spend. Spending on Theatre (across the UK) increased from £97.6m to £111.9m, although that's a slight reduction in % share. Note: my first version of this post got the numbers wrong - apologies if you saw that one!
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Post by Jan on Nov 4, 2022 15:56:23 GMT
So total spend up 18% based on those figures.
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Post by cavocado on Nov 4, 2022 16:08:21 GMT
Sadiq Khan: “A strong London equals a strong UK that’s why I am urging the government to think again and reconsider the consequences of these detrimental cuts.” Ha ha. Not just England but the entire UK benefits from funding London preferentially ! Actually even in this new funding round about a third of the total spend is in London. Does anyone know by how much the total ACE budget has been increased in this round ? Norris says it has but I can’t see the exact figures. Is a third of the budget spent on London unreasonable? 9 million population plus another million or so commuters every day, plus (pre-Covid figures) 40+ million tourists a year, 280 million day trippers. Sadiq Khan is right about London's economy being good for the UK, isn't he? The arts generates a lot of tax revenue and attracts tourists. I'm not suggesting that regional arts organisations don't deserve more funding, and I do think being able to experience high quality arts/culture on your doorstep is important, but I'm sceptical about the decision-making process here, and particularly the amount of thought that's been given to long term protection of our cultural heritage.
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Post by Jon on Nov 4, 2022 16:16:10 GMT
Is a third of the budget spent on London unreasonable? 9 million population plus another million or so commuters every day, plus (pre-Covid figures) 40+ million tourists a year, 280 million day trippers. Sadiq Khan is right about London's economy being good for the UK, isn't he? The arts generates a lot of tax revenue and attracts tourists. I'm not suggesting that regional arts organisations don't deserve more funding, and I do think being able to experience high quality arts/culture on your doorstep is important, but I'm sceptical about the decision-making process here, and particularly the amount of thought that's been given to long term protection of our cultural heritage. But are London based organisations likely to go bust due to the removal or reduction of NPO funding? The Bush got a funding increase so it's not like ACE targeted all London theatres for reduction and removals
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Post by crowblack on Nov 4, 2022 16:48:59 GMT
Is a third of the budget spent on London unreasonable? 9 million population plus another million or so commuters every day, plus (pre-Covid figures) 40+ million tourists a year, 280 million day trippers. Sadiq Khan is right about London's economy being good for the UK, isn't he? The arts generates a lot of tax revenue and attracts tourists. But the Arts, being centralised in an increasingly expensive capital city, are becoming the preserve of the wealthy or already London-based. When I lived in London in a zone 2 houseshare with actors 20 years ago, all of us from outside London, our rents were £40pw. Now the equivalent in that street is hundreds. It's very difficult to get a toehold in the arts now if you're not from London or have another income source like family. If we want a diverse arts scene with new and varied voices and performers 'going forward' for the future we've got to reach and support talent nationally not just that lucky enough to be based in London. As for tourism, I posted a few weeks ago that London venues really should be lobbying about the state of our transport system - stupidly expensive and totally unreliable.
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Post by Jan on Nov 4, 2022 17:04:38 GMT
Sadiq Khan: “A strong London equals a strong UK that’s why I am urging the government to think again and reconsider the consequences of these detrimental cuts.” Ha ha. Not just England but the entire UK benefits from funding London preferentially ! Actually even in this new funding round about a third of the total spend is in London. Does anyone know by how much the total ACE budget has been increased in this round ? Norris says it has but I can’t see the exact figures. Is a third of the budget spent on London unreasonable? 9 million population plus another million or so commuters every day, plus (pre-Covid figures) 40+ million tourists a year, 280 million day trippers. Sadiq Khan is right about London's economy being good for the UK, isn't he? The arts generates a lot of tax revenue and attracts tourists. I'm not suggesting that regional arts organisations don't deserve more funding, and I do think being able to experience high quality arts/culture on your doorstep is important, but I'm sceptical about the decision-making process here, and particularly the amount of thought that's been given to long term protection of our cultural heritage. I doubt the SNP would agree with him about subsidies in London being good for the whole UK. I wonder if Andy Burnham would ? Not surprised they’ve defunded the Gate - they’re not doing any productions and have some half-baked relocation plans. Another theatre that does very well without ACE funding but with the same sort of programming is the Coronet. And Jermyn Street. And the Old Vic. The Bridge. It’s not the end of the world.
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Post by Dawnstar on Nov 4, 2022 17:10:58 GMT
Anyone else baffled at a football museum getting an Arts Council grant? Given the colossal sums of money football clubs spend on players, surely a football museum could be run with backing from one or more clubs rather than from the Arts Council?
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Post by Jon on Nov 4, 2022 17:46:11 GMT
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Post by londonpostie on Nov 4, 2022 17:52:39 GMT
I'm hugely sympathetic to the levelling up agenda in general but I do think this is a slightly different beast.
I was at The Park theatre last week and even at Finsbury Park one of the sides of the Stalls was mostly taken up by a group of retired visitors from the USA, on their annual visit to see London theatre. Tammy Faye at The Almedia was also popular with US visitors. You can barely move at the ROH without hearing, presumably, Russian. These folks aren't sitting in the amphitheatre. And that's in October.
There must be data somewhere on the economic extent of overseas income but it's difficult to overstate the numbers.
Tend to think of ACE as an investment, with clear ROI. But that only works in London.
Would love to see a formula that sent ROI to the north as a means of supporting levelling up, though I'm reminded one of Truss's lunatic plans was to cancel VAT for tourists, as if they need encouraging (sterling = euro 1.17, USD 1.15)
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Post by scarpia on Nov 4, 2022 17:52:46 GMT
Good news. You’ll struggle to get much sympathy for the ROH and NT losing funding from anyone outside London. Why would we care? We’re never going to see their stuff. Seen the train and hotel prices? In fact it seems that most people in London aren’t interested in seeing their stuff either. I think this is an incredibly short-sighted view. Some of these (especially NT, ROH, and the Donmar) are world-class institutions with a huge amount of soft power worldwide and help to bring in wider investment to the entire UK. Decimating them will do no-one any good, and nor will it help anyone outside of London.
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Post by ruthieh on Nov 4, 2022 17:56:15 GMT
Gutted to hear The Watermill theatre have lost their NPO funding…
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Nov 4, 2022 18:00:26 GMT
Good news. You’ll struggle to get much sympathy for the ROH and NT losing funding from anyone outside London. Why would we care? We’re never going to see their stuff. Seen the train and hotel prices? In fact it seems that most people in London aren’t interested in seeing their stuff either. I think this is an incredibly short-sighted view. Some of these (especially NT, ROH, and the Donmar) are world-class institutions with a huge amount of soft power worldwide and help to bring in wider investment to the entire UK. Decimating them will do no-one any good, and nor will it help anyone outside of London. I’ll give you the ROH and NT for name recognition (not sure about “soft power”) but nobody outside London knows or cares what the Donmar Warehouse is unless they’re specifically into theatre.
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Nov 4, 2022 18:00:47 GMT
Gutted to hear The Watermill theatre have lost their NPO funding… Hope Mill Manchester also.
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Post by Jon on Nov 4, 2022 18:18:28 GMT
It’s a big strong to say places like the Donmar and Hampstead will be decimated without ACE funding. There are plenty of theatres which thrive without it like Southwark Playhouse, the Bridge etc and the Donmar has only been ACE funded since 2000
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Post by orchidman on Nov 5, 2022 1:27:56 GMT
If it forces Hampstead and the Donmar to be less self indulgent and to put on stuff that actually deserves to sell tickets then good.
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Post by og on Nov 5, 2022 7:56:12 GMT
Anyone else baffled at a football museum getting an Arts Council grant? Given the colossal sums of money football clubs spend on players, surely a football museum could be run with backing from one or more clubs rather than from the Arts Council? Remind me of Cameron Macintosh's net worth again. #devilsadvocate
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Post by Rory on Nov 5, 2022 8:59:16 GMT
Is there any appeal mechanism to ACE about refusal for National Portfolio funding?
Did venues like the Almeida and Young Vic get it, and if so why not the Donmar? How was the distinction made?
Edit: I've checked the list and both Almeida and Young Vic were successful. I can't see the Royal Court on the list ?
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Post by joem on Nov 5, 2022 9:43:10 GMT
Anyone else baffled at a football museum getting an Arts Council grant? Given the colossal sums of money football clubs spend on players, surely a football museum could be run with backing from one or more clubs rather than from the Arts Council? It does feel like an own goal.
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Post by n1david on Nov 5, 2022 9:50:14 GMT
Almeida was successful but did get a 15% cut. YV maintained their funding level.
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Post by cavocado on Nov 5, 2022 9:51:40 GMT
Anyone else baffled at a football museum getting an Arts Council grant? Given the colossal sums of money football clubs spend on players, surely a football museum could be run with backing from one or more clubs rather than from the Arts Council? Remind me of Cameron Macintosh's net worth again. #devilsadvocate That analogy would be like Arsenal being asked to fund Chelsea, in that these are theatre companies and producers competing (sort of) for the same audiences. The Football Museum situation is more like asking Cameron Mackintosh to donate to the V&A theatre collection (fair enough), except with football there are more Cameron Mackintoshes around, both clubs and individuals.
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Post by Jan on Nov 5, 2022 10:09:04 GMT
Would love to see a formula that sent ROI to the north as a means of supporting levelling up, though I'm reminded one of Truss's lunatic plans was to cancel VAT for tourists, as if they need encouraging (sterling = euro 1.17, USD 1.15) You do know that the “lunatic” Truss plans on allowing tourists to reclaim VAT would have only returned us to the situation as it was until January 2021 ? Until then it was always the case that foreign tourists (from outside the EU in that case, so including USA) could reclaim VAT. I never remember anyone complaining about the scheme then.
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Post by londonpostie on Nov 5, 2022 10:14:12 GMT
Well, £Sterling was a shade under $1.40 then - pretty much 25% more. Tourism less inhibited now.
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Post by Jan on Nov 5, 2022 10:17:55 GMT
Repeating what I said on another thread, the Donmar’s own website says that public funding only makes up 8% of their total income. So losing it doesn’t seem to be such a big deal.
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Post by TallPaul on Nov 5, 2022 10:18:47 GMT
I can't see the Royal Court on the list ? The Royal Court is funded under its 'official' name of the English Stage Company. £2.236 million p.a.
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