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Post by danb on Nov 19, 2021 10:31:05 GMT
That’s more like it! NOW I’m excited. I really hope that none of the Ansel Elgort stuff derails it. It is getting tiresome that the historical actions of an individual end up ruining a films chances of success. You can still be a great actor in a great movie but be a flawed/crappy human being. It is HIS future that should be affected by his actions, not his previous work.
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Post by dgjbear on Nov 30, 2021 5:56:30 GMT
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Post by stuartmcd on Nov 30, 2021 8:22:59 GMT
That’s more like it! NOW I’m excited. I really hope that none of the Ansel Elgort stuff derails it. It is getting tiresome that the historical actions of an individual end up ruining a films chances of success. You can still be a great actor in a great movie but be a flawed/crappy human being. It is HIS future that should be affected by his actions, not his previous work. I don’t think it will. The fact he was at the premiere last night shows that the studio feels confident that he can be used to promote the movie without it causing any major drama.
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Post by stuartmcd on Nov 30, 2021 8:25:05 GMT
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Post by anthony40 on Nov 30, 2021 20:43:30 GMT
Given recent events, I wonder if somewhere in the credits, it is dedicated to Stephen Sondheim?
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Post by marob on Nov 30, 2021 22:32:34 GMT
Looking forward to it, but my heart just sank at the tweet in that article saying about 40% of the dialogue is subtitle-less Spanish.
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Post by poster J on Nov 30, 2021 22:41:43 GMT
Looking forward to it, but my heart just sank at the tweet in that article saying about 40% of the dialogue is subtitle-less Spanish. What does it matter? It makes it more authentic and everyone knows the story anyway.
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Post by marob on Nov 30, 2021 23:10:46 GMT
Looking forward to it, but my heart just sank at the tweet in that article saying about 40% of the dialogue is subtitle-less Spanish. What does it matter? It makes it more authentic and everyone knows the story anyway. I’m not bothered about it being in Spanish, but I would always prefer non-English dialogue to be subtitled. Just personal preference.
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Post by Jon on Nov 30, 2021 23:52:08 GMT
Didn't the 2009 Broadway revival has songs in Spanish?
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Post by frontrowcentre on Dec 1, 2021 1:44:26 GMT
Lin-Manuel Miranda adapted the Puerto Rican characters songs into Spanish. But I believe that eventually they were reverted back to English half way through the run. Happy to be corrected.
It’s weird that they’re not gonna include subtitles in the movie if part of the dialogue is not in English.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2021 3:35:58 GMT
Looking forward to it, but my heart just sank at the tweet in that article saying about 40% of the dialogue is subtitle-less Spanish. What does it matter? It makes it more authentic and everyone knows the story anyway. No. Not everyone knows the story
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Post by Jan on Dec 1, 2021 8:41:22 GMT
Looking forward to it, but my heart just sank at the tweet in that article saying about 40% of the dialogue is subtitle-less Spanish. What does it matter? It makes it more authentic and everyone knows the story anyway. Have you ever seen a production that you knew well in a foreign language you don't speak without subtitles ? I have several times and it's quite tedious - there's more to dialogue than just "the story". Also, if it was "authentic" then everyone wouldn't be singing would they ?
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Post by poster J on Dec 1, 2021 8:57:31 GMT
What does it matter? It makes it more authentic and everyone knows the story anyway. No. Not everyone knows the story Google is your friend. And even so, I really doubt anyone who is planning to see this is ignorant of Romeo & Juliet or the fact that this film is based on it given the previous film version has been around for 60 years...
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Post by poster J on Dec 1, 2021 9:00:23 GMT
What does it matter? It makes it more authentic and everyone knows the story anyway. Have you ever seen a production that you knew well in a foreign language you don't speak without subtitles ? I have several times and it's quite tedious - there's more to dialogue than just "the story". Also, if it was "authentic" then everyone wouldn't be singing would they ? Yes I have, and it allows you to be immersed in the body language, facial expressions and tonality, like in any context where I don't understand the language. If you go into it open-minded then there is a lot more to communication than just words. And there is a lot more to acting than just words. But if people can't be bothered to give it a chance then clearly this is a film they shouldn't see. Given only one review I've read so far has even mentioned it, seems to me it likely won't be an issue.
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Post by Jan on Dec 1, 2021 9:16:24 GMT
No. Not everyone knows the story Google is your friend. And even so, I really doubt anyone who is planning to see this is ignorant of Romeo & Juliet or the fact that this film is based on it given the previous film version has been around for 60 years... That's an elitist view, quite a middle-aged one too, there are plenty of young people who have no clue about the plot of Romeo & Juliet, wouldn't have watched a 60-year-old film, and would have no desire to have to research a film before they're able to understand it. Best they stay at home ? The situation is somewhat different in USA where Spanish is very widely taught in schools as a second language - not so in UK.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2021 9:37:01 GMT
Have you ever seen a production that you knew well in a foreign language you don't speak without subtitles ? I have several times and it's quite tedious - there's more to dialogue than just "the story". Also, if it was "authentic" then everyone wouldn't be singing would they ? Yes I have, and it allows you to be immersed in the body language, facial expressions and tonality, like in any context where I don't understand the language. If you go into it open-minded then there is a lot more to communication than just words. And there is a lot more to acting than just words. But if people can't be bothered to give it a chance then clearly this is a film they shouldn't see. Given only one review I've read so far has even mentioned it, seems to me it likely won't be an issue. Regardless of anything you say about body language, facial expressions etc, if you dont know what is being said in the dialogue, then you really can't appreciate the plot or characters properly. How can you understand humour if you dont know what they're joking about or what the punchline is, how can you fully appreciate nuances within a character when you can't understand a word they say. You can't. I really love Tony Kushners writing and i want to he able to understand it fully as he meant it.
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Post by fiyerorocher on Dec 1, 2021 9:38:21 GMT
Google is your friend. And even so, I really doubt anyone who is planning to see this is ignorant of Romeo & Juliet or the fact that this film is based on it given the previous film version has been around for 60 years... That's an elitist view, quite a middle-aged one too, there are plenty of young people who have no clue about the plot of Romeo & Juliet, wouldn't have watched a 60-year-old film, and would have no desire to have to research a film before they're able to understand it. Best they stay at home ? The situation is somewhat different in USA where Spanish is very widely taught in schools as a second language - not so in UK. I don't disagree with you, but it is worth saying that I'm not sure any child can get through mainstream education without studying R+J at least once :') I doubt anyone's enjoyment of the film will be hindered specifically by them not knowing the plot of that.
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Post by alicechallice on Dec 1, 2021 9:55:13 GMT
You could also have completely forgotten everything about Romeo and Juliet, or not been paying any attention when you studied it at school. It’s not specified in the credits that it’s based on R+J so it’s not necessarily that commonly known.
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Post by barrowside on Dec 1, 2021 9:58:09 GMT
I really don't think it will be a problem. All the story and the emotion are in the score and the cast will be acting it out. It will be like watching a Puccini opera in the days before surtitles or translations - it was always very easy to understand La Boheme for example without a word of Italian.
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Post by poster J on Dec 1, 2021 10:52:55 GMT
I really don't think it will be a problem. All the story and the emotion are in the score and the cast will be acting it out. It will be like watching a Puccini opera in the days before surtitles or translations - it was always very easy to understand La Boheme for example without a word of Italian. Exactly. People in this thread are acting as if this is something new and objectionable when it's been part of art for hundreds of years. It's baffling!
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Post by poster J on Dec 1, 2021 10:56:54 GMT
Yes I have, and it allows you to be immersed in the body language, facial expressions and tonality, like in any context where I don't understand the language. If you go into it open-minded then there is a lot more to communication than just words. And there is a lot more to acting than just words. But if people can't be bothered to give it a chance then clearly this is a film they shouldn't see. Given only one review I've read so far has even mentioned it, seems to me it likely won't be an issue. Regardless of anything you say about body language, facial expressions etc, if you dont know what is being said in the dialogue, then you really can't appreciate the plot or characters properly. How can you understand humour if you dont know what they're joking about or what the punchline is, how can you fully appreciate nuances within a character when you can't understand a word they say. You can't. I really love Tony Kushners writing and i want to he able to understand it fully as he meant it. Clearly he meant it to be in Spanish as he's written it that way, so to understand it fully as he meant it is to watch it as he has chosen to portray it, without subtitles. Your argument is effectively saying no silent film or un-subtitled foreign language film can ever be fully appreciated, which is clearly not the case. And I disagree entirely that you can't appreciate humour etc. in a foreign language - it is often obvious from body language and actions, especially in those contexts where it is intended for an audience that may not speak the language (or where there is no dialogue at all). It may require more effort and concentration on the part of the audience, but that is a different matter and up to the individual if they want to put that effort in.
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Post by poster J on Dec 1, 2021 11:00:09 GMT
Google is your friend. And even so, I really doubt anyone who is planning to see this is ignorant of Romeo & Juliet or the fact that this film is based on it given the previous film version has been around for 60 years... That's an elitist view, quite a middle-aged one too, there are plenty of young people who have no clue about the plot of Romeo & Juliet, wouldn't have watched a 60-year-old film, and would have no desire to have to research a film before they're able to understand it. Best they stay at home ? The situation is somewhat different in USA where Spanish is very widely taught in schools as a second language - not so in UK. Ah but I am talking about the people likely to see this film, not the world as a whole. That said, I am younger than middle aged and don't know anyone who doesn't know Romeo & Juliet. We all came across it at school. And the first thing I and all my peers do if we don't know something is pull out our phones and type it into Google, so I'm not sure it is elitist or middle-aged to be talking from my own experience of younger people who weren't around when the original film came out!
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Dec 1, 2021 11:07:00 GMT
I don’t see what harm there would be in sub-titling it. Why risk excluding ANYone?
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Post by karloscar on Dec 1, 2021 11:15:52 GMT
All these nasty people daring to speak languages that I don't understand. What are they saying about me, trying to hide from me? I have a right to know. Maybe Spielberg and Kushner are making a point to highlight the barriers between the rival gangs, making the audience put themselves in that position. From a commercial point of view there will be nothing that can't be understood by a broad audience as it would make no sense to do so. Stop WHINING about hypothetical stuff that doesn't matter, in a film you haven't even seen yet!
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Post by dontdreamit on Dec 1, 2021 11:20:56 GMT
No. Not everyone knows the story Google is your friend. And even so, I really doubt anyone who is planning to see this is ignorant of Romeo & Juliet or the fact that this film is based on it given the previous film version has been around for 60 years... I’m taking my 8 year old whose only prior knowledge of it is a couple of the songs.
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Post by stuartmcd on Dec 1, 2021 11:21:40 GMT
Yeah I think this is all getting blown out of proportion at the moment. I can only see one reaction on twitter that even mentions this and even they say that it was an inspired choice. The review embargo lifts tomorrow so I’m sure if it’s a big problem then we’ll be sure to hear about it.
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Post by juicy_but_terribly_drab on Dec 1, 2021 12:48:35 GMT
Yeah, as far as I have read the 40% is an exaggeration, and while there's a not insignificant amount in unsubtitled Spanish it doesn't seem to have affected anyone's enjoyment or understanding of the film.
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Post by poster J on Dec 1, 2021 13:16:31 GMT
Google is your friend. And even so, I really doubt anyone who is planning to see this is ignorant of Romeo & Juliet or the fact that this film is based on it given the previous film version has been around for 60 years... I’m taking my 8 year old whose only prior knowledge of it is a couple of the songs. Presumably now you know that there is some Spanish dialogue you can easily give your 8 year old a one minute run down of the plot though? And might be worth warning them it is a dark, gritty version of the story anyway - it's been rated PG-13 in the US because of it.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2021 13:56:59 GMT
Your argument is effectively saying no silent film or un-subtitled foreign language film can ever be fully appreciated, which is clearly not the case. And I disagree entirely that you can't appreciate humour etc. in a foreign language - it is often obvious from body language and actions, especially in those contexts where it is intended for an audience that may not speak the language (or where there is no dialogue at all). It may require more effort and concentration on the part of the audience, but that is a different matter and up to the individual if they want to put that effort in. My points were definitely not what you wrote above, in fact, you're points make no sense. Silent movies had no dialogue. (The clue is in the title) There was nothing to miss or not understand, and given how OTT they were played, you couldn't miss their intentions. You can appreciate humour in a foreign language if it is something like slapstick or mime or something else ridiculously OTT. You cannot appreciate a joke told between friends if you don't know the language. Your condescending tone and comment about people 'putting the concentration and effort in' is also wrong. I could concentrate as hard as i possibly could, but I still wouldn't be able to know what someone is saying in a language i don't speak.
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Post by stuartmcd on Dec 1, 2021 14:02:11 GMT
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