|
Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2020 17:44:58 GMT
The Queen has shown with the recent photos and appearances that she and Charles are all for the direct line only. Cousins out of it and Harry and Meghan would be suffering for not much, more importantly their kids would be suffering. Exactly where have they said they’re doing this because they’re suffering though? They dislike the press commentary, but they’re going to get that no matter what. The photo thing has been happening for a number of years now and is part of Charles’ vision of a slimmed down monarchy. But no one wanted Harry out and the slimmed down monarchy was/is an attempt to shift focus from the Queen’s family, but to Charles’ as the next monarch. When Charles becomes king there’s a lot of changes to work through. Most people in the UK haven’t had a king or seen a coronation before, William and Kate will (I’d have thought quite quickly) become Prince and Princess of Wales, and little Archie I believe automatically becomes HRH Prince Archie because he’s a grandson of the monarch. Then we have to see how the idea of Queen Camilla goes down. When they married they said she wouldn’t become Queen, but there’s no real mechanism for her not to be (in the same way she is actually the current Princess of Wales whether she uses the title or not). Plus Camilla’s popularity has soared over the years in ways I don’t think they expected it to.
|
|
18,698 posts
|
Post by BurlyBeaR on Jan 9, 2020 17:50:37 GMT
Camilla hasn’t put a foot wrong. She’s done the job and that’s what people want and expect to see in return for that all wealth and privilege. Amazing how that situation has turned around despite the public’s affection for Diana.
I wonder what Diana would think of Harry’s actions. I think she’d be disappointed, he probably thinks he’s carrying on her legacy. William must be fumin’ bbs.
|
|
|
Post by intoanewlife on Jan 9, 2020 17:58:47 GMT
I don't really get the fuss, I mean are these people in prison or something?
They should be able to do whatever they want.
Frankly they seem like the only 2 remotely normal people out of the lot of 'em.
I wish them the best of luck x
|
|
|
Post by intoanewlife on Jan 9, 2020 18:00:48 GMT
Maybe we should rethink the Lidl day cream thread.... 😁 There's no harm in putting out fires while looking fresh.
|
|
2,706 posts
|
Post by Cardinal Pirelli on Jan 9, 2020 18:24:24 GMT
The Queen has shown with the recent photos and appearances that she and Charles are all for the direct line only. Cousins out of it and Harry and Meghan would be suffering for not much, more importantly their kids would be suffering. Exactly where have they said they’re doing this because they’re suffering though? They dislike the press commentary, but they’re going to get that no matter what. Not if the press are destroyed. I just had the misfortune to read, second hand, some of the stuff in today’s Mail, Times, Mirror etc., it’s even worse than I had imagined. Foam flecked rantings that are solely designed to provoke outrage in the unfortunates who read that sort of thing. It’s not ‘freedom of the press’ that they are engaging in, it’s hate speech. Pick a victim, play on popular resentment, sit back and watch the fires burn. It’s probably the thing that disgusts me about our nation more than anything else, it’s a national embarrassment. It would be a good thing for the nation to take this as an opportunity to draw a line under the division and hate that has been propagated by these unelected, poorly regulated media barons and their underlings. Problem, is that politicians are completely scared of them and what they might do in the meantime (plus, of course, many, including our dear Prime Minister, have fortunes partly gained, at least partly, through these same organisations).
|
|
4,028 posts
|
Post by kathryn on Jan 9, 2020 20:00:09 GMT
@kevin They’re playing for 3 things with the press: 1. The same right to hold them to basic standards of accuracy and privacy that every other wealthy celeb has. The reason the press get away with so much is that traditionally the Royals don’t sue. Harry is changing that.
2. The same ability to control press access that every other celeb has. The ability to refuse to give content to the tabloids that abuse them. At the moment because of the ‘Royal rota’ system they cannot do that. They can’t even post something exclusively to their social media - they have to offer it to the press too. Even the papers they are suing.
3. Public opinion. The ‘taxpayer money’ thing is the standard excuse for allowing the abuse to continue, on the basis that it is ‘holding them to account’. Public disapproval is the only thing that will cause the press to exercise restraint and actually behave themselves - that’s the ultimate goal, they don’t actually want the expense of going to court every time the press lie and invade their privacy.
Basically the idea is to disincentivise the press behaviour they have experienced thus far. Make it unprofitable, make it unpopular.
It’ll be interesting for those of us with an interest in media law and behaviour to see how this all plays out. Don’t forget the press managed to get away with kicking the Leveson recommendations into the long grass and avoided the second part of the inquiry actually taking place. They are of course not going to react kindly to this attempt to restrain them either. But, notably, the only guy who actually did any jail time for phone hacking was the one who hacked William’s phone.
As to the question about them suffering - yes, actually, they have said that. They got a load of criticism for doing so, too. They’re not going through all this hassle just for fun, or because Harry has a sudden urge to piss his family off.
|
|
2,257 posts
|
Post by theatreian on Jan 9, 2020 22:34:26 GMT
The issue I have is not what they are doing but the way they have gone about it. Not having more detailed announcement due to not discussing their wishes in detail with the family and now the fact the Meghan has gone back to Canada to see Archie. This does seem to have been rushed without too much thought to the complexities of their wishes and the situation.
|
|
4,458 posts
|
Post by poster J on Jan 9, 2020 23:43:46 GMT
The issue I have is not what they are doing but the way they have gone about it. Not having more detailed announcement due to not discussing their wishes in detail with the family and now the fact the Meghan has gone back to Canada to see Archie. This does seem to have been rushed without too much thought to the complexities of their wishes and the situation. Exactly. It comes across to me as rather selfish and entitled, and I will not apologise for saying that. Of course everyone should in principle be entitled to do what they wish with their lives, but we don't live in a vacuum. Their lack of respect and apparent thought at all for the members of their wider family and for the Queen in her capacity as monarch is the problem here - it would not have cost much at all to make a private phone call or send a message to warn them what was going to happen, but all indications are that they just decided to do what they please and to hell with the fallout for everyone else. And now Meghan can't even be bothered to be in the country to deal with that fallout or actually sort out where they go from here. Flying across the Atlantic for a few days seemingly just to make this announcement is ridiculous. One of the first lessons they will learn in the real world is that if you have that attitude you will not endear yourself to many. And because of that attitude I don't want a penny of my taxes to go to paying for them to jaunt around the globe with half a dozen Met Police in tow - if they want that safety net, they can pay for it. The police have enough to do at home!
|
|
1,093 posts
|
Post by samuelwhiskers on Jan 10, 2020 0:55:02 GMT
The rest of the royal family did know it was going to happen at some point, they’d been in discussions about it for months and Charles had requested a full detailed breakdown which they provided but which wasn’t acted on. The senior royals were sent the actual statement shortly before it was made public. Harry and Meghan certainly jumped the gun (possibly due to the news leaking to the press a few days ago) but it’s not like the royals found out they were planning to step down from Twitter.
According to the Evening Standard Harry had been requesting a meeting with the Queen for weeks (the Queen certainly was fully informed that he wanted to leave and knew about all the discussions) but she refused to meet with him until he and Charles had worked out all the details and finalised all the negotiations. The ES also claim the courtiers had blocked Harry from being allowed access to the Queen.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2020 1:43:38 GMT
If they choose to live abroad then we shouldn't have to fund them. They are rumoured to be worth over £30 million combined so would hardly be hard up. They could effectively live off the interest plus they have the card up their sleeves that the Royal Family wouldn't want them doing endorsements etc so would likely fund them to a certain extent.
Harry isn't directly in-line to the throne but would have been expected to do his fair share of duties as the future King's son and then future King's brother. The Queen has cut down on her workload, Phillip is retired and Charles and Camilla are both turned 70, Anne turns 70 this year, Andrew has had to step down, Edward has his own causes and does a lot for Duke of Edinburgh Award scheme.
Would Charles have considered handing over the Prince's Trust to Harry to run in due course I wonder. When Charles is King then William will have Duchy of Cornwall to run and likely be the main travelling royal as the then direct heir.
|
|
4,028 posts
|
Post by kathryn on Jan 10, 2020 12:25:45 GMT
The rest of the royal family did know it was going to happen at some point, they’d been in discussions about it for months and Charles had requested a full detailed breakdown which they provided but which wasn’t acted on. The senior royals were sent the actual statement shortly before it was made public. Harry and Meghan certainly jumped the gun (possibly due to the news leaking to the press a few days ago) but it’s not like the royals found out they were planning to step down from Twitter. According to the Evening Standard Harry had been requesting a meeting with the Queen for weeks (the Queen certainly was fully informed that he wanted to leave and knew about all the discussions) but she refused to meet with him until he and Charles had worked out all the details and finalised all the negotiations. The ES also claim the courtiers had blocked Harry from being allowed access to the Queen. Hmm. Sounds a little bit like the Palace was hoping to talk them out of it or kick it into the long grass, and so were deliberately dragging their feet. Going public made it a fait accompli. It's not the preferred option, for sure. What's that quote - 'it's easier to ask forgiveness than get permission'?
|
|
18,698 posts
|
Post by BurlyBeaR on Jan 10, 2020 12:34:28 GMT
I bet that photograph had something to do with it. I bet Harry was annoyed about not being in it, and that Meghan had the wooden spoon out stirring the pot! 😀
|
|
4,028 posts
|
Post by kathryn on Jan 10, 2020 12:36:31 GMT
Harry isn't directly in-line to the throne but would have been expected to do his fair share of duties as the future King's son and then future King's brother. The Queen has cut down on her workload, Phillip is retired and Charles and Camilla are both turned 70, Anne turns 70 this year, Andrew has had to step down, Edward has his own causes and does a lot for Duke of Edinburgh Award scheme. Their statement said they plan to continue to carry out royal duties in support of the monarch as requested. Harry's particular focus is on the Commonwealth. The fact that Canada is a Commonwealth country is likely to have been integral to the plan. They're not actually quitting the Royal family, despite what some of the more hysterical press coverage says. They are seeking more independence from the established way of working and funding their work, mainly because of the press.
|
|
4,028 posts
|
Post by kathryn on Jan 10, 2020 12:39:44 GMT
I bet that photograph had something to do with it. I bet Harry was annoyed about not being in it, and that Meghan had the wooden spoon out stirring the pot! 😀 Exhibit A, m'lud. This has quite obviously been planned since long before that photo was released. Harry has made it perfectly plain that he despises the press for years. But oh no, let's blame the black woman for it.
|
|
|
Post by sparky5000 on Jan 10, 2020 12:45:36 GMT
I have mixed feelings about all this! Like others have said, my main issue is the way that Harry and Meghan have gone about things, but releasing the statement the way they did. I think that did show total disrespect for The Queen.
The bottom line is, the Royal Family is the Royal Family. It may try and modernise but it is always going to be routed in its traditions and ways of doing things. Meghan knew exactly what she was getting into when she married Harry, but I don’t think even she was ready for how restrictive she’d find that! I understand the struggle it’s been for her, and some of the press coverage over the past 2 years has been disgusting, and so I have sympathy with Harry and Meghan wanting to change things up, but at the same time, I don’t see how you can be half in and half out. They shouldn’t be able to personally profit from being royals and using their “Sussex Royal” brand through commercial ventures whilst cherry picking when it suits them to actually perform their Royal duties.
|
|
4,028 posts
|
Post by kathryn on Jan 10, 2020 13:11:37 GMT
www.princeofwales.gov.uk/what-duchy-originals-it-anything-do-duchy-cornwallThis is obviously the model they want to use for ‘Sussex Royal’. The income will support their charitable foundation and their work as Royals, instead of having to take money from Duchy of Cornwall and Sovereign Grant. They’re not ‘personally profiting’ from being Royals, they’re seeking to generate an income to support their work as Royals. Honestly, it took me 20 minutes to gather all of the info I have posted in this thread from reading the FAQs on their website a couple of days ago. The fact that there is so much misinformation still circulating is proof, if it were needed, that the press campaign against them has worked. They can’t get fair and accurate information out there, because the press megaphone drowns them out.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2020 13:24:00 GMT
If they want to be celebrities and get paid for it, why not. I mean NSFW she could end up in the jungle chewing kangaroo testicles... as going by that press release, she already seems to be getting practice in on... Edward always had those Theatrical leanings and with her being a fully trained actress they could all do a Panto together - The House of York are an all in one - Baron Hardup, Wicked Stepmother and Ugly Sisters or they could draft Mike Tindall in as one ugly sister with his broken nose from his rugby days. Harry could be Dandini so he'd get to be Prince for a day.
As regards the photo, it was the immediate heirs, Prince Phillip, no future Queen Consorts or William's other children who are all ahead of Harry in the succession line.
|
|
|
Post by jojo on Jan 10, 2020 18:32:31 GMT
I find this all a huge fuss over not particularly much. If it is true that the announcement was made without prior warning to the Queen etc, then that is rubbish, but the general concept is fine. It's just taking a backwards step away from the lime-light, managing their work accordingly and taking less money from the state. I think they might be kidding themselves slightly with the idea of being "self-sufficient" in any meaningful sense, but I won't hate on them for trying.
I'm far more angry at the likes of Piers Morgan who has hounded the couple, and especially Megan, like a stalkerish man who was turned down for a date, inciting all kind of additional hate. Which is a lot considering how hateful he and some of his peers have been towards them in recent months. It may be a little bit fair to say that the couple, along with most famous people including the rest of the royals, are a bit spoilt and so on, but there can be no doubt that a large chunk of the writers for particular publications are either racist themselves, or more than willing to pander to the racists for a pay cheque.
The main tactic from the press is to reframe the whole thing as Megan vs the Queen, when the reality is that Harry has prioritised the health and wellbeing of his wife, child, and himself, over an out of control and hateful press. Even if we are to believe the Queen is distraught and not keen on Megan, I'm very sure she much prefers her to Sarah Vine.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2020 1:20:06 GMT
There are rumours he might be offered the Governor General role. If Meaghan cannot cope with the press intrusion then how would she have got on if she had married a Hollywood A Lister or one of these High Profile Tech Millionaires. I get it that she has had to give up her career but she must have been more used to publicity and been more media savvy than Kate who took on a much bigger Royal role.
I still wonder if Charles might decide to "trim" Harry's income and when William becomes the heir then he'll control the Duchy of Cornwall.
|
|
472 posts
|
Post by bimse on Jan 11, 2020 9:59:17 GMT
I know a few people on this board don’t like others expressing any view that differs from theirs, but right now my thoughts are with “ordinary” people, who for example, are struggling to get to work and keep their jobs due to our transport infrastructure that isn’t fit for purpose, the increasing numbers of homeless people on our streets which is heartbreaking , people who have to sell their homes to pay for care when they’ve worked and paid taxes all their lives supposedly to include provision for themselves and others with social and health care. Most people are just concerned with getting by and struggling through the mess this country has become, through a lack of public spending, while other countries seem to be prospering very nicely (I’m not saying there aren’t problems in all countries, just that some countries seem to have more money available for their infrastructure and social and health care ). They’re not concerned with the woes of these privileged people. The actions of this privileged couple are typical of the royal family and many of our politicians , who are out of touch and probably never give the above a second thought . Talk about bad timing, on the back of Prince Andrews self important actions, this couple now expect the public to rally behind them and support them , same as Andrew did. If they are capable of being self sufficient financially, they must do that if they so wish, but they shouldn’t take any more money from the public or a “firm” they no longer want to work for (if it’s 6 months on 6 months off they’re looking for, that’s a damned check) My point is they are irrelevant to most of the public who are just struggling to get by. Welcome to Northern Rail , Harry and Meghan !
|
|
472 posts
|
Post by bimse on Jan 11, 2020 10:02:22 GMT
Why do people keep going on about the Frogmore cottage renovation? This has been answered a million times. It's part of historic royal palaces, owned by the Queen, she has a responsibility to maintain it, and the maintenance was due anyway. They didn't get £2m spent on them, the Queen spent it on routine maintenance. Then then paid for their own redecoration, fixtures and fittings. They are tenants of the Queen - the Queen still owns the property. As for the wedding - can you imagine the howls of outrage if it had not been a big public affair? If they'd eloped and married in secret? (The only way to avoid it costing a fortune in security arrangements). The press would have been livid. We certainly had a massive boost to visitor numbers due to it, and a whole bunch of British business made money out of it. We didn't 'pay for them to get married', we paid for a huge public event that promoted the country around the world. It's really, really stupid to claim that was a benefit to them - I'd bet anything they'd have had a lot more fun if they could have had a private wedding. Fair enough, if they want to be financially independent and are capable of being so, then they should pay the appropriate rent to the Queen. This self important and privileged couple, same as Andrew, are irrelevant to many in this country who are simply struggling. It’ll be interesting to see how they get by without taking money from the public or the royal family .
|
|
2,706 posts
|
Post by Cardinal Pirelli on Jan 11, 2020 10:44:07 GMT
I know a few people on this board don’t like others expressing any view that differs from theirs, but right now my thoughts are with “ordinary” people, who for example, are struggling to get to work and keep their jobs due to our transport infrastructure that isn’t fit for purpose, ......... Well, why aren’t papers like the Mail, Express, Times, even the Mirror being enraged about that then? Where are the campaigns to arouse public grievance over these things? People are, yet again, being comprehensively played by what they are given to read. There are things that deserve people to be aggrieved over, yet those who are sidetracked onto blaming peripheral (and often financially minimal) matters are the ‘useful idiots’ that stop what does matter being addressed. We need to remove the outsized power given to media owners, Only then will the issues you raise be at the centre of public debate. As it is stuff like the Royals and Celebrities are used as distractions and, sadly, too many people hare off after the distraction.
|
|
472 posts
|
Post by bimse on Jan 11, 2020 11:14:43 GMT
I know a few people on this board don’t like others expressing any view that differs from theirs, but right now my thoughts are with “ordinary” people, who for example, are struggling to get to work and keep their jobs due to our transport infrastructure that isn’t fit for purpose, ......... Well, why aren’t papers like the Mail, Express, Times, even the Mirror being enraged about that then? Where are the campaigns to arouse public grievance over these things? People are, yet again, being comprehensively played by what they are given to read. There are things that deserve people to be aggrieved over, yet those who are sidetracked onto blaming peripheral (and often financially minimal) matters are the ‘useful idiots’ that stop what does matter being addressed. We need to remove the outsized power given to media owners, Only then will the issues you raise be at the centre of public debate. As it is stuff like the Royals and Celebrities are used as distractions and, sadly, too many people hare off after the distraction. Trust you @cardinal Pirelli. These privileged people are irrelevant to many people who are struggling , and who are contributing to their keep . Who are you calling “useful idiots “ ?
|
|
2,706 posts
|
Post by Cardinal Pirelli on Jan 11, 2020 11:53:23 GMT
Well, why aren’t papers like the Mail, Express, Times, even the Mirror being enraged about that then? Where are the campaigns to arouse public grievance over these things? People are, yet again, being comprehensively played by what they are given to read. There are things that deserve people to be aggrieved over, yet those who are sidetracked onto blaming peripheral (and often financially minimal) matters are the ‘useful idiots’ that stop what does matter being addressed. We need to remove the outsized power given to media owners, Only then will the issues you raise be at the centre of public debate. As it is stuff like the Royals and Celebrities are used as distractions and, sadly, too many people hare off after the distraction. Trust you @cardinal Pirelli. These privileged people are irrelevant to many people who are struggling , and who are contributing to their keep . Who are you calling “useful idiots “ ? Aren’t you saying that people are not focussing on what matters? Doing away with the Royals would help nobody financially in this country, quite possibly even reducing income though tourism etc. It’s a sideshow. Now look at who is spreading this hate. That one of the main hate and grievance spreaders is the wife of a senior government member is not a surprise. Politicians deflecting from their own failure by distracting the public with whatever the new scapegoat is. Many people will have realised, it’s those that haven’t who are (in Lenin’s purported phrase) ‘useful idiots’. Blithe to their role in helping government deflect attention from their own failures.
|
|
18,698 posts
|
Post by BurlyBeaR on Jan 11, 2020 12:21:28 GMT
If the royals didn’t do stupid things there would be no grievances to spread though would there? You don’t see hate or grievances spread about The Queen because she never does anything remotely controversial. Same for Charles since he remarried. William and Kate are doing fine with the press aren’t they? (I don’t read the popular newspapers so I’m not up to speed). But then you get the Sarah Ferguson’s of this world, idiots like Andrew and his appalling behaviour, Harry lecturing us on climate change whilst using private jets, or Meghan writing messages to sex workers on bananas do you expect it to pass without comment or criticism?
|
|
2,706 posts
|
Post by Cardinal Pirelli on Jan 11, 2020 12:42:28 GMT
If the royals didn’t do stupid things there would be no grievances to spread though would there? You don’t see hate or grievances spread about The Queen because she never does anything remotely controversial. Same for Charles since he remarried. William and Kate are doing fine with the press aren’t they? (I don’t read the popular newspapers so I’m not up to speed). But then you get the Sarah Ferguson’s of this world, idiots like Andrew and his appalling behaviour, Harry lecturing us on climate change whilst using private jets, or Meghan writing messages to sex workers on bananas do you expect it to pass without comment or criticism? All of those have been the chosen punchbag at any one time for the press. Do people really have such short memories? Until now they haven’t really fought back, though, so this is different in some ways. You do list the Daily Mail talking points however, so if you don’t read the popular newspapers, it just shows that their cancerous spread of innuendo, half truths, supposition and lies has a large reach (even up to the loaded term ‘lecturing’). The one you mention that is deserving of continued examination and exposure is Andrew, he has consorted with criminals and been accused himself, the others maybe a comment piece or two and nothing more, most definitely not a concerted campaign to attack, destabilise and destroy. This is the first time I can remember a Royal really fighting back, I hope that Harry feels that he needs to continue doing so and that he doesn’t just want to escape (thus putting the papers’ next choice of victim in the firing line).
|
|
18,698 posts
|
Post by BurlyBeaR on Jan 11, 2020 12:45:35 GMT
The banana thing and Harry’s flying habits both made tv and radio news. Are you saying those stories didn’t merit the coverage?
|
|
892 posts
|
Post by vdcni on Jan 11, 2020 12:55:45 GMT
I know a few people on this board don’t like others expressing any view that differs from theirs, but right now my thoughts are with “ordinary” people, who for example, are struggling to get to work and keep their jobs due to our transport infrastructure that isn’t fit for purpose, the increasing numbers of homeless people on our streets which is heartbreaking , people who have to sell their homes to pay for care when they’ve worked and paid taxes all their lives supposedly to include provision for themselves and others with social and health care. Most people are just concerned with getting by and struggling through the mess this country has become, through a lack of public spending, while other countries seem to be prospering very nicely (I’m not saying there aren’t problems in all countries, just that some countries seem to have more money available for their infrastructure and social and health care ). They’re not concerned with the woes of these privileged people. The actions of this privileged couple are typical of the royal family and many of our politicians , who are out of touch and probably never give the above a second thought . Talk about bad timing, on the back of Prince Andrews self important actions, this couple now expect the public to rally behind them and support them , same as Andrew did. If they are capable of being self sufficient financially, they must do that if they so wish, but they shouldn’t take any more money from the public or a “firm” they no longer want to work for (if it’s 6 months on 6 months off they’re looking for, that’s a damned check) My point is they are irrelevant to most of the public who are just struggling to get by. Welcome to Northern Rail , Harry and Meghan ! Yes and our press spend more time attacking Harry and Meghan than pursuing the government that has caused or ignored most of these problems. My thoughts are also with the average person which is why I'm tired of the hysteria over Harry and Meghan while the government and business get away with it. Maybe the likes of the Daily Mail and Piers Morgan should have cared as much about Boris Johnson throwing public money at his American mistress.
|
|
6,226 posts
Member is Online
|
Post by danb on Jan 11, 2020 13:09:20 GMT
For me it’s the people doing the criticising and their intentions that are the problem; they all seem to come from a similar ‘area’ of society. If H&M continue to take public funds for no output I would have a problem with it. Otherwise it really isn’t my business and good luck to them. We only know what the press want to tell us so we should take it all with a pinch of salt.
|
|
6,226 posts
Member is Online
|
Post by danb on Jan 11, 2020 13:16:28 GMT
The banana thing and Harry’s flying habits both made tv and radio news. Are you saying those stories didn’t merit the coverage? The banana thing was a spur of the moment, slightly misguided quirky attempt to brighten some peoples day. I’m not sure how else Harry would spread the word across the commonwealth? A podcast? A q&a on his insta? The world has moved on from stiff upper lip, cardboard cut out figureheads.
|
|