776 posts
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Post by latefortheoverture on Feb 5, 2020 22:59:30 GMT
For the second act I stood at the back and left after when you believe.
Now seems I have missed the best part! Argh!!!!
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4,458 posts
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Post by poster J on Feb 5, 2020 23:32:42 GMT
I suspect anyone who goes into this without seeing the film will have issues with it - it is rather necessary to set the expectations I think...
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3,057 posts
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Post by ali973 on Feb 5, 2020 23:59:22 GMT
How are The Plagues? I remember in the tryout version they amalgamated it with a new song.
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776 posts
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Post by latefortheoverture on Feb 6, 2020 0:10:38 GMT
For the second act I stood at the back and left after when you believe. Now seems I have missed the best part! Argh!!!! Worth adding I didn't want to leave. Whilst I wasn't loving it, I was going to see it through. But due to it staring 20 minutes later and the interval being nearly 30 minutes, it would mean I was going to miss connecting parts of the journey!
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1,189 posts
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Post by theatrelover123 on Feb 6, 2020 0:18:42 GMT
I suspect anyone who goes into this without seeing the film will have issues with it - it is rather necessary to set the expectations I think... Well that shouldn't be the case. They should stand alone as separate works of art. People may still have legitimate and valid issues with this version whether they have seen the film or not. No expectations need setting.
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Post by juicy_but_terribly_drab on Feb 6, 2020 0:51:54 GMT
I would think the film would set my expectations very high for some scenes of epic proportions and awe (the scale of the film is so large and grandiose) which it sounds like this will not deliver so watching the film seems like a bad idea tbh.
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4,578 posts
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Post by Mark on Feb 6, 2020 12:14:02 GMT
Got P45 stalls in the rush today
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1,214 posts
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Post by Steve on Feb 6, 2020 19:09:18 GMT
I loved this last night, finding it less the hollow spectacular epic I feared it might be, and more a surprisingly human, intimate and subversive take on the biblical story, which, by humanising both protagonist AND antagonist, at the expense of the divine, has every chance of appealing to a broader audience than believers alone. That and the fact that it's got a terrific cast, exciting choreography and luscious tunes! Some spoilers follow. . . Adapting this bibical story into a musical for the West End stage is astonishingly daring. A show by believers for believers (eg the aborted "Heaven on Earth") could never generate enough footfall to be a viable business proposition, and tampering with the story too much could kill it's core audience. After all, for believers, the Passover is a testament to the glory of God, but to nonbelievers, a story about the mass killing of innocent children to exert political pressure on powers-that-be sounds like terrorism. I think this dichotomy haunted the movie, "The Prince of Egypt," which didn't even get a Blu-ray release until it's 20 year anniversary. That movie, opted for spectacle as it's USP, as only animation can show the plagues of Egypt on such an enormous scale in such ravishing detail. A musical, a format in which a single flying helicopter passes for spectacle, could never rival the film in epic scope, and this musical doesn't really (there are a couple of decent coups-de-theatre) try, using bare sets, video projections and presenting plague montages wherein you'd need to be a Biblical scholar to identify when one plague ends and another begins. Instead, this musical is all about the feels of Moses, Ramses and Tzipporah, featuring some pretty dazzling dance choreography and some glorious tunes, only a few of which appeared in the original movie. Now, I haven't seen the movie in 20 years, so I can't be trusted on this, but I recall Ramses to be an increasingly diabolical character in that movie, driven by overweening arrogance and cruelty in the latter stages, a pretty black and white villain. If I'm right in my recollection, that Pharaoh Ramses is gone, to be replaced by a much more agreeable and relatable figure in the musical, torn apart by political winds that even the man on the Clapham Omnibus would understand, and fiercely loyal to his adopted brother, Moses, to boot. Liam Tamne's Ramses portrays a vulnerable, brotherly, loving, and naive Ramses for whom your heart might break. Luke Brady's Moses is even more likeable and relatable, a man trying to do right by everybody. He is not made to own any atrocities committed in his name, as when such scenes are played, God's own voice comes out of Moses' mouth. Later, Moses describes the Egyptians as "victims" and seems compassionate and mournful for what God has done to them. And this is where the musical feels subversive, for God's actions are left to God alone, the unfathomable, with no human being unmitigatingly endorsing them, and no black and white villainy to bolster God's motives. But perhaps that is not even the most subversive thing about this show. Indeed, the most subversive thing is how little God appears, with my watch reading 9pm without a single supernatural event having happened. This is clever, as the dramas, of loving brothers pitted against each other by fate, and of unexpected and humorous romance against the backdrop of jeopardy, take centre stage, and emotionally draw in an audience that may be resistant to religion. Indeed, I think I know more from this musical about the names given by Moses to his sheep, innocently charming and romancing Tzipporah, than I know about the names of the plagues that later ensue upon the Egyptians. Not only does God have a bit part, when he does show up, the burning bush is played by the whole ensemble as a deliciously exciting Diversity-does-the-burning-bush routine (actually, even more diverse than Diversity, as women and men together tumble, leap and fly over each others' heads to create the Bush). The effect is to put the full spectrum of humanity and the beauty of dance into the depiction of God, which makes God at once wondrous and invisible, for it is not God we are admiring, but talented dancers. Christine Allado impressed me so much as Tzipporah, how she could dance so vigorously and sing so vigorously at the same time, something most pop stars avoid like the plague lol. She, along with Tamne and Brady lift this show with song and humanity. But above all, it is Brady's sympathetic portrayal of a Moses, trying and failing to do right by everyone, that really hit the spot for me, often on the verge of tears, always trying to lift with humour, ever gentle, and with a more commanding voice than his staff. I won't pretend the storytelling is complex, but it is classically entertaining in the dilemmas it sets up, and in its politically complex love-hate personal relationships. And in addition to the central three actors, Gary Wilmot absolutely rules his one big song (just as he ruled the panto at the Palladium recently), and Alexia Khadime's underdeveloped character sings beautifully. The whole ensemble is pretty wonderful, actually. In summary, if you want epic scale mega-sets and accurate Bible study, forget this. If you want a hugely complex and original story, also forget it. But if you want classic emotive drama and romance, beautiful songs and singing, wonderful ensemble dancing and a charismatic lead, this really hit the spot for me, and it might for you too. The subversiveness of this show is that it wants to entertain its general audience more than it wants to lecture them. I loved it, and unlike the film, would happily see it again. 4 stars.
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4,578 posts
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Post by Mark on Feb 6, 2020 19:22:24 GMT
No way the show is gonna start on time. Have never seen a box office line like it, wrapped all the way around the corner, hundreds deep.
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1,210 posts
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Post by musicalmarge on Feb 6, 2020 19:28:57 GMT
I loved this last night, finding it less the hollow spectacular epic I feared it might be, and more a surprisingly human, intimate and subversive take on the biblical story, which, by humanising both protagonist AND antagonist, at the expense of the divine, has every chance of appealing to a broader audience than believers alone. That and the fact that it's got a terrific cast, exciting choreography and luscious tunes! Some spoilers follow. . . Adapting this bibical story into a musical for the West End stage is astonishingly daring. A show by believers for believers (eg the aborted "Heaven on Earth") could never generate enough footfall to be a viable business proposition, and tampering with the story too much could kill it's core audience. After all, for believers, the Passover is a testament to the glory of God, but to nonbelievers, a story about the mass killing of innocent children to exert political pressure on powers-that-be sounds like terrorism. I think this dichotomy haunted the movie, "The Prince of Egypt," which didn't even get a Blu-ray release until it's 20 year anniversary. That movie, opted for spectacle as it's USP, as only animation can show the plagues of Egypt on such an enormous scale in such ravishing detail. A musical, a format in which a single flying helicopter passes for spectacle, could never rival the film in epic scope, and this musical doesn't really (there are a couple of decent coups-de-theatre) try, using bare sets, video projections and presenting plague montages wherein you'd need to be a Biblical scholar to identify when one plague ends and another begins. Instead, this musical is all about the feels of Moses, Ramses and Tzipporah, featuring some pretty dazzling dance choreography and some glorious tunes, only a few of which appeared in the original movie. Now, I haven't seen the movie in 20 years, so I can't be trusted on this, but I recall Ramses to be an increasingly diabolical character in that movie, driven by overweening arrogance and cruelty in the latter stages, a pretty black and white villain. If I'm right in my recollection, that Pharaoh Ramses is gone, to be replaced by a much more agreeable and relatable figure in the musical, torn apart by political winds that even the man on the Clapham Omnibus would understand, and fiercely loyal to his adopted brother, Moses, to boot. Liam Tamne's Ramses portrays a vulnerable, brotherly, loving, and naive Ramses for whom your heart might break. Luke Brady's Moses is even more likeable and relatable, a man trying to do right by everybody. He is not made to own any atrocities committed in his name, as when such scenes are played, God's own voice comes out of Moses' mouth. Later, Moses describes the Egyptians as "victims" and seems compassionate and mournful for what God has done to them. And this is where the musical feels subversive, for God's actions are left to God alone, the unfathomable, with no human being unmitigatingly endorsing them, and no black and white villainy to bolster God's motives. But perhaps that is not even the most subversive thing about this show. Indeed, the most subversive thing is how little God appears, with my watch reading 9pm without a single supernatural event having happened. This is clever, as the dramas, of loving brothers pitted against each other by fate, and of unexpected and humorous romance against the backdrop of jeopardy, take centre stage, and emotionally draw in an audience that may be resistant to religion. Indeed, I think I know more from this musical about the names given by Moses to his sheep, innocently charming and romancing Tzipporah, than I know about the names of the plagues that later ensue upon the Egyptians. Not only does God have a bit part, when he does show up, the burning bush is played by the whole ensemble as a deliciously exciting Diversity-does-the-burning-bush routine (actually, even more diverse than Diversity, as women and men together tumble, leap and fly over each others' heads to create the Bush). The effect is to put the full spectrum of humanity and the beauty of dance into the depiction of God, which makes God at once wondrous and invisible, for it is not God we are admiring, but talented dancers. Christine Allado impressed me so much as Tzipporah, how she could dance so vigorously and sing so vigorously at the same time, something most pop stars avoid like the plague lol. She, along with Tamne and Brady lift this show with song and humanity. But above all, it is Brady's sympathetic portrayal of a Moses, trying and failing to do right by everyone, that really hit the spot for me, often on the verge of tears, always trying to lift with humour, ever gentle, and with a more commanding voice than his staff. I won't pretend the storytelling is complex, but it is classically entertaining in the dilemmas it sets up, and in its politically complex love-hate personal relationships. And in addition to the central three actors, Gary Wilmot absolutely rules his one big song (just as he ruled the panto at the Palladium recently), and Alexia Khadime's underdeveloped character sings beautifully. The whole ensemble is pretty wonderful, actually. In summary, if you want epic scale mega-sets and accurate Bible study, forget this. If you want a hugely complex and original story, also forget it. But if you want classic emotive drama and romance, beautiful songs and singing, wonderful ensemble dancing and a charismatic lead, this really hit the spot for me, and it might for you too. The subversiveness of this show is that it wants to entertain its general audience more than it wants to lecture them. I loved it, and unlike the film, would happily see it again. 4 stars. You love the word subversive! 😉
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4,578 posts
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Post by Mark on Feb 6, 2020 22:59:05 GMT
So, it’s good, but needs work (and cuts). Clocks in at around 2:45 (started 15 mins late tonight).
Ok, some good things. The cast are fantastic. Really loved everyone and the vocals were strong all around. The staging I really liked and visually it’s very effective. The projections blend perfectly to form the visuals with the limited physical sets.
Deliver Us was a fantastic start, very similar to the movie arrangement. And this is where I had my major disappointment of the evening - The Plagues sequence in act two has been ripped apart and no longer has the verses from the version you’d hear in the movie. It just didn’t work for me, even though it was visually effective. If you’re a fan of the film - expect disappointment here.
There are a lot of unnecessary reprises which make parts drag on and on, especially towards the end.
I’d say it’s somewhere between 3 and 4 stars for me with much potential to improve. I will return once it’s had time to bed in. I think I had such high expectations that whilst parts were met, others fell well below.
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Post by jenp on Feb 6, 2020 23:00:09 GMT
For those who have seen the show, how long was it?
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Post by intoanewlife on Feb 6, 2020 23:04:25 GMT
For those who have seen the show, how long was it? It is literally in the post right above yours x
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2,813 posts
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Post by couldileaveyou on Feb 6, 2020 23:37:17 GMT
Saw it tonight and it really didn't do it for me.
The singing is wonderful and the dancing is great (not the choreographies tho), the cast is truly first rate and deserves a much stronger creative team. The book is weak and so are most of the new songs (with the exception of Heartless in the second act), but it's a dream to have "When You Believe" sung by such fantastic vocalists. It's a gorgeous song, and luckily they reprise it like 75 times so you can fully appreciate it.
The true problem here is the direction by Scott Schwartz, whose only achievement is reminding us what a sad thing nepotism is. He just wastes a lot of occasions without creating momentum, such as God's apparition, that passes by and goes without further notice. What bothered me is not the cheap look of the production (those of you who thought Aladdin looked cheap will have a fit watching this). I've never been one to care much about lavish sets, they tell more about the budget of the production than the skills of the designer. The problem of this production is a complete lack of imagination, creativity, and stage-craft. There is no idea, no vision behind it. We live in a time where the wildest fantasies can be recreated on screen with technology and money, live theatre should try doing something else. A rising platform is just that, tech and money, and to use only projections is such a waste of the medium. The only clever moment is the tenth plague, where he manages to do something simple but touching, the rest is just community theatre with a large budget. It really felt like a wasted occasion for me, especially since the cast is truly top notch.
**
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Post by jenp on Feb 7, 2020 0:49:35 GMT
For those who have seen the show, how long was it? It is literally in the post right above yours x Oops. Thanks. I got so interested in the analysis that I missed that little piece of information!
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4,596 posts
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Post by Someone in a tree on Feb 7, 2020 7:34:37 GMT
Saw it tonight and it really didn't do it for me. The singing is wonderful and the dancing is great (not the choreographies tho), the cast is truly first rate and deserves a much stronger creative team. The book is weak and so are most of the new songs (with the exception of Heartless in the second act), but it's a dream to have "When You Believe" sung by such fantastic vocalists. It's a gorgeous song, and luckily they reprise it like 75 times so you can fully appreciate it. The true problem here is the direction by Scott Schwartz, whose only achievement is reminding us what a sad thing nepotism is. He just wastes a lot of occasions without creating momentum, such as God's apparition, that passes by and goes without further notice. What bothered me is not the cheap look of the production (those of you who thought Aladdin looked cheap will have a fit watching this). I've never been one to care much about lavish sets, they tell more about the budget of the production than the skills of the designer. The problem of this production is a complete lack of imagination, creativity, and stage-craft. There is no idea, no vision behind it. We live in a time where the wildest fantasies can be recreated on screen with technology and money, live theatre should try doing something else. A rising platform is just that, tech and money, and to use only projections is such a waste of the medium. The only clever moment is the tenth plague, where he manages to do something simple but touching, the rest is just community theatre with a large budget. It really felt like a wasted occasion for me, especially since the cast is truly top notch. ** The tenth plague? Just how many plagues are there?!!! 😉
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149 posts
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Post by tonylony on Feb 7, 2020 9:27:15 GMT
The buzz is.... not good.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2020 9:36:40 GMT
When you only choose to link negative stuff, you can make anything look bad. The Buzz isnt as bad as you're trying to make out.
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149 posts
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Post by tonylony on Feb 7, 2020 9:37:06 GMT
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2,569 posts
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Post by viserys on Feb 7, 2020 9:42:45 GMT
I would guess that many people go in with pre-conceived notions what it SHOULD look like (in their opinion/imagination) so find themselves disappointed. See also: Frozen and the (lack of) ice castle.
I'd take these tweets with a pinch of salt. Maybe I'll also be bitterly disappointed. But another show set in Ancient Egypt worked just fine with modern looking costumes, minimalist stage sets and a smashing pop sound track. So I reserve judgement until I've seen this live.
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149 posts
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Post by tonylony on Feb 7, 2020 9:51:21 GMT
I would guess that many people go in with pre-conceived notions what it SHOULD look like (in their opinion/imagination) so find themselves disappointed. See also: Frozen and the (lack of) ice castle. I'd take these tweets with a pinch of salt. Maybe I'll also be bitterly disappointed. But another show set in Ancient Egypt worked just fine with modern looking costumes, minimalist stage sets and a smashing pop sound track. So I reserve judgement until I've seen this live. I agree. Problem is, i'm sure the general public coming to see this will expect epic sets and not interpretive dancing. As theater fans I think we're more open/willing to see the latter and use some imagination. So I guess the question is - will this sell?
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2,569 posts
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Post by viserys on Feb 7, 2020 10:15:47 GMT
I would guess that many people go in with pre-conceived notions what it SHOULD look like (in their opinion/imagination) so find themselves disappointed. See also: Frozen and the (lack of) ice castle. I'd take these tweets with a pinch of salt. Maybe I'll also be bitterly disappointed. But another show set in Ancient Egypt worked just fine with modern looking costumes, minimalist stage sets and a smashing pop sound track. So I reserve judgement until I've seen this live. I agree. Problem is, i'm sure the general public coming to see this will expect epic sets and not interpretive dancing. As theater fans I think we're more open/willing to see the latter and use some imagination. So I guess the question is - will this sell? I agree, but I'd say it's only the theater fans who are now eagerly following the first feedback on Twitter and here on the forum. The general public may book blind or rely on the reviews when they come out (which may of course be bad!). That said, AFAIK it's only planned as a limited run anyway and hopefully curiosity will be big enough to sustain it for a few months, especially in summer tourist season. It's lucky that it doesn't have much competition at the moment in terms of new big fresh musical for a wide target audience. Guess we can only wait and see, although I assume that even if they tweak stuff during previews, the main things already being complained about (sets/projection) can't be changed anymore. As for the music being complained about, I dunno, right now there are some musicals being very popular whose music I don't care for at all. If the people who like that kind of music now complain about Prince of Egypt, there's hope for me
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2020 11:25:13 GMT
I agree. Problem is, i'm sure the general public coming to see this will expect epic sets and not interpretive dancing. As theater fans I think we're more open/willing to see the latter and use some imagination. So I guess the question is - will this sell? I agree, but I'd say it's only the theater fans who are now eagerly following the first feedback on Twitter and here on the forum. The general public may book blind or rely on the reviews when they come out (which may of course be bad!). That said, AFAIK it's only planned as a limited run anyway and hopefully curiosity will be big enough to sustain it for a few months, especially in summer tourist season. It's lucky that it doesn't have much competition at the moment in terms of new big fresh musical for a wide target audience. Guess we can only wait and see, although I assume that even if they tweak stuff during previews, the main things already being complained about (sets/projection) can't be changed anymore. As for the music being complained about, I dunno, right now there are some musicals being very popular whose music I don't care for at all. If the people who like that kind of music now complain about Prince of Egypt, there's hope for me Agreed, *STAMP* :-)
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749 posts
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Post by horton on Feb 7, 2020 15:19:49 GMT
I was hoping against hope that it would be well-staged.
This will be one of the great missed opportunities.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2020 16:25:01 GMT
This should have, and deserves, an epic staging. Not only because of the movie, but the music and also the venue. You dont do small and innovative storytelling at the dominion. It doesnt have to bem literal either, I wouldnt describe LOTR as traditional sets, they were imaginative but still epic with many wow moments.
Problem is Prince of Egypt is up against it from the start, the director just isnt good. His Hunchback of Notre Dame at the Papermill was severely lacking and I have a horrible feeling this will end up being a similar missed opportunity.
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4,159 posts
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Post by HereForTheatre on Feb 8, 2020 11:46:56 GMT
What sort of tickets are coming up on the rush?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2020 12:30:49 GMT
Swathes of tickets disappeared from the online booking plans for all of February.
Either it’s suddenly sold very well (possible) or huge amounts have gone to papering clubs for the first month to try and generate positive word of mouth.
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1,429 posts
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Post by showtoones on Feb 8, 2020 22:08:38 GMT
Swathes of tickets disappeared from the online booking plans for all of February. Either it’s suddenly sold very well (possible) or huge amounts have gone to papering clubs for the first month to try and generate positive word of mouth. Is it possible that they could go to agencies? Not sure how that works...
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614 posts
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Post by jamb0r on Feb 8, 2020 22:24:31 GMT
I’ve booked rear circle seats with the secret hope that they would close the rear circle (like they did regularly for Bat out of Hell) if it wasn’t selling, resulting in an upgrade!
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148 posts
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Post by geweena on Feb 8, 2020 22:50:15 GMT
What sort of tickets are coming up on the rush? Got Circle F39 in rush for yesterday. Brilliant seat with complete view of the stage.
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