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Post by Cardinal Pirelli on Aug 10, 2018 19:01:31 GMT
Wonder.land was a limited run that completed its engagement and toured. Places like the NT, Old.Vic and such don’t have open runs so they’re of a different type. Groundhog Day is the same, although it would be seen as a flop on Broadway. A critical failure would be a good description of Wonder.land, I think. Wind in the Willows didn’t reach the end of its limited run, which is very flop-like. Zorro ran about 275 performances but has been successfully produced in the Netherlands, France, Russia etc. Not an exact science, of course, but using Mandelbaum’s parameters from Not Since Carrie is a decent guide.
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Post by poster J on Aug 10, 2018 19:09:53 GMT
I've only seen two of the long list posted earlier in the thread: Lend Me a Tenor I loved; Made in Dagenham I hated.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2018 21:29:03 GMT
Oh if I can take a moment to mention a flop play, just because it was just bizzare and hilarious... did anyone see Fatal Attraction?! Me and @ryan still laugh about it now! That ending! 😂😂 Oh my goodness YES! That was one of my absolute favourites! It was quite simply one of the worst things I've ever seen but also one of the most ridiculously enjoyable things around. I just LOVED it from start to finish. So many things about make me giggle even after all these years. THAT is what London's glitzy West End is all about.
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Post by crabtree on Aug 10, 2018 22:04:21 GMT
Has anyone mentioned Time or Bernadette or Mutiny......the shape nearly saved Mutiny, but the lyrics and songs were appalling, and when the ship finally reached wherever it was going, all that was left of the budget was a terrible cloth. Ghastly but a good ship. Ah yes, and brian blessed in Metropolis.....monumental in so many ways.
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Post by Boob on Aug 10, 2018 22:18:25 GMT
Let's not forget Romeo & Juliet the Musical at the Piccadilly! It started with the lyrics (courtesy of the immortal bard of Hackney South, Donald Blackstone) "If you think you've seen it all/Then you had better think again." Quite. By the finale, when the cast sang "Men, men are fools/They're like stubborn mules", my jaw was so low on the floor I was practically on the Bakerloo Line.
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Post by Cardinal Pirelli on Aug 10, 2018 22:32:28 GMT
Time actually ran for a couple of years and Mutiny for over a year. Strange times the eighties, that shows like this got decent runs. Romeo and Juliet was actually a massive hit in Paris and they made changes which made it a whole lot worse. Songs which really land powerfully in the French spectacle sounded weedy and god knows what what Jane MacDonald was doing there. Almost as out of place as Sheila Ferguson popping in to sing a completely irrelevant song in Always about love’s carousel!
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Post by Phantom of London on Aug 10, 2018 22:33:22 GMT
Wonder.land was a limited run that completed its engagement and toured. Places like the NT, Old.Vic and such don’t have open runs so they’re of a different type. Groundhog Day is the same, although it would be seen as a flop on Broadway. A critical failure would be a good description of Wonder.land, I think. Wind in the Willows didn’t reach the end of its limited run, which is very flop-like. Zorro ran about 275 performances but has been successfully produced in the Netherlands, France, Russia etc. Not an exact science, of course, but using Mandelbaum’s parameters from Not Since Carrie is a decent guide. Sorry forgot to put on my last post that your list is great. I mentioned Wonder.land because it got stinking reviews and played to a empty Olivier where a lot of people chopped their ticket in. I know the run is limited, but if a show does well they either add more booking dates or transfer it into the West End. The tour If I remember was part of the Manchester international Festival, where it played the Palace before the National. Same could be said about The Light Princess which never met expectations. Groundhog Day is an intriguing one, where it got excellent reviews, including the New York Times, which made the producers rush it to Broadway, in a season choc-a-bloc with new musicals, including Hamilton, the rest is sadly history, if the producers transferred it to the West End, it would have had a very good run and chances are it would still be open now., build a good word of mouth and if opened on Broadway last season it may of run a lot longer. But saying all that hindsight is a beautiful thing. Bright Star is another musical that opens that season and closed prematurely, that show was beautiful. The Witches of Eastwick could sit on this list.
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Post by sf on Aug 10, 2018 22:43:29 GMT
Has anyone mentioned Time or Bernadette or Mutiny......the shape nearly saved Mutiny, but the lyrics and songs were appalling, and when the ship finally reached wherever it was going, all that was left of the budget was a terrible cloth. Ghastly but a good ship. Ah yes, and brian blessed in Metropolis.....monumental in so many ways.
I saw Time and Metropolis, but with extensive therapy I was eventually able to make a full recovery.
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Post by sf on Aug 10, 2018 22:48:45 GMT
1990 Bernadette Heaven’s Up King Someone Like You 1991 Children of Eden Hunting of the Snark Matador 1992 From a Jack to a King Moby Dick Radio Times Valentine’s Day Which Witch 1993 Leonardo: Portrait of Love Lust c.1461 Robin, Prince of Sherwood 1994 Out of the Blue 1995 Prisoner Cell Block H 1996 Voyeurz 1997 Always Fields of Ambrosia Stepping Out Maddie 1998 Saucy Jack & the Space Vixens God help me, I saw 18 of these. My post-98 scorecard is less impressive (I haven't lived in London since then). I'm not sure whether that's a good or a bad thing.
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Post by sf on Aug 10, 2018 22:59:15 GMT
I mentioned Wonder.land because it got stinking reviews and played to a empty Olivier where a lot of people chopped their ticket in. I know the run is limited, but if a show does well they either add more booking dates or transfer it into the West End. The tour If I remember was part of the Manchester international Festival, where it played the Palace before the National. My favourite memory of wonder.land at the Palace is of the woman sitting next to me turning to me after the curtain call as we were getting ready to file out of the theatre and telling me, "my brother saw this last night and he told me it was one of the best things he'd ever seen." (long pause) "He needs to get out more."
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Post by drowseychap on Aug 11, 2018 0:34:25 GMT
Some of the so called flops I really enjoyed and the odd one went on to have a very successful tour ie the goodbye girl ? With Gary Wilmot and on the tour Marti Webb I also must say enjoyed hard times Brian blessed Anne Emery and Roy hudd were fantastic and made the best of it ... enjoyable show .. love the ep some good songs on it
The drowsy chaperone of course .... loved this show and always felt it would tour well it really should have done better Hated lord of the rings .... boring ...
Did enjoy lend me a tenor and really thought it deserved a longer run
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Post by Cardinal Pirelli on Aug 11, 2018 1:01:58 GMT
To clarify a few things - these are musicals with limited runs in major theatres (including the NT, Stratford East, Menier, Lyric Hammersmith among some others). Some of them quite well remembered, some barely noticed even when they were on.
LIMITED RUNS
1990 Just So Glory
1991 Days of Hope Good Golly Miss Molly
1993 Moll Flanders The Iron Man Night After Night
1994 Peter Pan – the British Musical Curse of the Werewolf
1995 Zorro the Musical (Not the later show)
1996 Summer Holiday The Fix Enter the Guardsman Disgracefully Yours Scrooge the Musical
1997 Heathcliff
1998 Honk
2000 The Villain’s Opera
2002 Peter Pan – a Musical Adventure
2003 Da Boyz Over My Shoulder
2004 Brighton Rock Follow My Leader
2005 High Heel Parrotfish
2006 The Wolves in the Wall Blonde Bombshells of 1943
2007 Take Flight
2008 Come Dancing
2009 Been So Long Wuthering Heights
2010 Paradise Found Britain’s Got Bhangra Wolfboy The Three Musketeers
2011 London Road Shoes – the Musical Takeaway Betwixt Swallows and Amazons
2012 The Wah Wah Girls
2013 American Psycho The Light Princess Glasgow Girls
2014 The Infidel – the Musical
2015 Wonder.land
2016 Lazarus Groundhog Day A Pacifist’s Guide to the War on Cancer
2017 The Girl From the North Country (if you add up the Old Vic run with the West End run it only reached about 200 performances but they were both limited runs) The Grinning Man
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Post by Cardinal Pirelli on Aug 11, 2018 1:04:46 GMT
A few that I'd missed plus those that, on further investigation put existing songs into a new story (not just biomusicals or revues). A couple of Eurovision based shows too plus the French Romeo & Juliet which, on reflection, was very different to the original (blame Din Black, I think).
1990 Eurovision
1991 Ken Hill’s Phantom of the Opera
1992 The Cotton Club
1993 Hot Stuff
1994 Hot Shoe Shuffle
1995 The Hot Mikado
1998 Boogie Nights
1999 Oh, What a Night
2002 Romeo & Juliet - the Musical
2008 Eurobeat (Almost Eurovision)
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Post by Cardinal Pirelli on Aug 11, 2018 2:02:06 GMT
For comparison these are shows of that twenty eight year period (including types excluded from the flops list) that ran for longer than those in the main flop list.
We Will Rock You 4659 Billy Elliot 4566 Dirty Dancing 2055 Five Guys Named Moe 2054 (Revue) Sunset Boulevard 1529 Charlie and the Chocolate Factory c. 1500 Chitty Chitty Bang Bang 1415 Mary Poppins 1283 Dreamboats & Petticoats c. 1230 Priscilla, Queen of the Desert 1152 Whistle Down the Wind 1044 Sunny Afternoon c. 860 (Biomusical) Bombay Dreams 829 The Bodyguard c.760 Saturday Night Fever 758 Martin Guerre 675 Love Never Dies c.630 Top Hat c. 630 Only the Lonely 611 (Biomusical) Jerry Springer – the Opera 609 The Woman in White c. 600 Sister Act 591 Jolson 580 (Biomusical) Copacabana 525 Taboo c. 525 (Biomusical) The Witches of Eastwick 506 Ghost – the Musical c. 500 Lord of the Rings 454 Jailhouse Rock 420 The Beautiful Game 391 Tonight’s the Night 387 Dr Dolittle 375 A Tribute to the Blues Brothers 360 (Revue) Bend it Like Beckham c.350 Spend, Spend, Spend 342 Our House 331 Good Rockin Tonite 327 (Biomusical) Zorro 279 By Jeeves 268
Still Running – rough figures as of now Mamma Mia c. 7890 Thriller – Live c. 4000 (Revue) Matilda c.2750 School of Rock c. 725 Everybody’s Talking About Jamie c. 320
On my last post, Din Black ahould have read Don Black, it wasn’t an unsubtle comment about the lack of musicality in his lyrics.
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Post by The Matthew on Aug 11, 2018 4:09:32 GMT
Let's not forget Romeo & Juliet the Musical at the Piccadilly! The London and Antwerp productions of that show were launched at about the same time, and the cast of the latter weren't happy that their production was being neglected by a creative team who seemed to think that London deserved almost all their time. The Antwerp production was an incredible success and ended up extending (IIRC) four times. The cast in Antwerp were not exactly saddened to find out that the oh-so-special London production had flopped and already closed while they were still selling out on their extended run.
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Post by partytentdown on Aug 11, 2018 10:04:54 GMT
I want to know more about CASPER!
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Post by Cardinal Pirelli on Aug 11, 2018 10:27:47 GMT
I want to know more about CASPER! It was, bizarrely, a show created for Butlin’s holiday camps, having toured to Bognor Regis, Minehead and Skegness! Most of the cast were redcoats (or used to be) who worked at the camps. The score was written by the guy who wrote ‘Karma Chameleon’ and another member of the mid seventies group Sailor (anyone remember ‘Glass of Champagne’?). It was billed as a limited season but had greater hopes. In another weird twist it did get an American production but with a rewritten book and the original score pretty much binned. That version starred Chita Rivera, not as the friendly ghost but as the evil nemesis. A children’s show, really.
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Post by partytentdown on Aug 11, 2018 10:35:13 GMT
I want to know more about CASPER! It was, bizarrely, a show created for Butlin’s holiday camps, having toured to Bognor Regis, Minehead and Skegness! Most of the cast were redcoats (or used to be) who worked at the camps. The score was written by the guy who wrote ‘Karma Chameleon’ and another member of the mid seventies group Sailor (anyone remember ‘Glass of Champagne’?). It was billed as a limited season but had greater hopes. In another weird twist it did get an American production but with a rewritten book and the original score pretty much binned. That version starred Chita Rivera, not as the friendly ghost but as the evil nemesis. A children’s show, really. This sounds incredible
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Post by d'James on Aug 11, 2018 10:51:41 GMT
I LOVED Lend Me A Tenor.
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Post by last5jamie on Aug 11, 2018 14:52:40 GMT
I actually saw Imagine This! in Brno, Czech republic, this March and I love it. The show was extremely moving and the ending was just heartbreaking.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2018 15:10:30 GMT
The 90's was when i went to see everything and i saw pretty much all them, and bought the cast recording if there was one. I even bought the cd of Voyeurz.... 2 of them were the only shows i have left at the interval - Tess of The Durbervilles and Hard Times. Tess was just a very long, tuneless mess. I have no idea how it came into the Savoy. There were only a few people in the theatre the night i went. I really enjoyed most of the shows. The early 90's was when i was coming to London to see shows on my own and was in awe of most of the things i saw. I loved Always, Lautrec, Closer to Heaven, The Fields of Ambrosia, Children of Eden, Moby Dick, Hunting of The Snark.... Bernadette has a special place in my heart as my friends dad produced it.... I occasionally listen to the demo cast recording sometimes, for it's 80's, electric guitar power ballads!
I'd love to see Matador again. I saw it 3 times during its brief run. Too bad they didnt record an offical cast recording.
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Post by Penny on Aug 11, 2018 16:35:42 GMT
Daddy Cool - the musical with Boney M songs, that was soooo bad it was good 😂
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Post by anthony40 on Aug 11, 2018 17:03:17 GMT
I went and saw Betwixt at The Trafalgar Studios in 2011 only because Ellen Greene was in it but (to be honest) it was rubbish. Completely forgettable and badly acted.
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Post by partytentdown on Aug 11, 2018 17:08:43 GMT
I went and saw Betwixt at The Trafalgar Studios in 2011 only because Ellen Greene was in it but (to be honest) it was rubbish. Completely forgettable and badly acted. I never understood how they persuaded her to be in that, and yet she's never been seen in any other shows here as far as I'm aware
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Post by Cardinal Pirelli on Aug 11, 2018 17:22:26 GMT
I went and saw Betwixt at The Trafalgar Studios in 2011 only because Ellen Greene was in it but (to be honest) it was rubbish. Completely forgettable and badly acted. I never understood how they persuaded her to be in that, and yet she's never been seen in any other shows here as far as I'm aware She was in the original London production of Little Shop of Horrors (Claire Moore took over after six months).
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Post by partytentdown on Aug 11, 2018 17:26:10 GMT
I never understood how they persuaded her to be in that, and yet she's never been seen in any other shows here as far as I'm aware She was in the original London production of Little Shop of Horrors (Claire Moore took over after six months). Yes sorry I meant more recently, you'd think she'd still be a bit of a name especially amongst musical geeks. Funny how a fairly small fringe show managed to sign her up.
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Post by Mark on Aug 11, 2018 17:51:27 GMT
I went and saw Betwixt at The Trafalgar Studios in 2011 only because Ellen Greene was in it but (to be honest) it was rubbish. Completely forgettable and badly acted. Oh I loved this one! However, not a flop as it was always a limited run. I believe it extended actually.
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Post by anthony40 on Aug 11, 2018 17:58:25 GMT
I went and saw Betwixt at The Trafalgar Studios in 2011 only because Ellen Greene was in it but (to be honest) it was rubbish. Completely forgettable and badly acted. Oh I loved this one! However, not a flop as it was always a limited run. I believe it extended actually. I believe it did extend but for me, it just didn't work. On so many levels. But each to there own I guess.
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Post by paddy72 on Aug 11, 2018 21:16:44 GMT
OK so I know they were not in the West End .... but Carrie in Stratford was so insanely spectacularly bad that it was pure joy and is a memory I treasure to this day. And then the first crazy, messy performances of Les Mis at the Barbican which I have in my brain as being five or six hours long. Still kept going back to see it over and over however. And it got better.
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Post by confessor on Aug 12, 2018 8:49:48 GMT
I've only really got more heavily into musical theatre over the past 6/7 years, so a lot of the flops before that I'd never realised were on at the time (and have barely heard of most of them now). Of the others, I've seen and enjoyed From Here to Eternity, Stephen Ward (I realise I may be the only person who did), Made in Dagenham and The Girls. Viva Forever was a mess but I didn't hate it and Mrs Henderson Presents was just a bit bland.
One not listed, not sure if it can be classed as a flop or not, is Rent Remixed, probably the worst thing I've seen in the West End, although it did have Luke Evans in it so every cloud...
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