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Post by Dave25 on May 27, 2018 8:51:37 GMT
a man pretending to be a woman (whisper it) doesn't really work. It's been overlooked as an issue but I expect productions at some point to deal with it. I think it is not an issue at all and works perfectly, the comedic side on the one hand and if well played the sincere emotional side as well. It perfectly fits the exaggerated style of characters and looks of the show. I do think we live in a world that is getting overly sensitive to an absurd point, where everyone is offended by everything, people lose every form of resilience, people lose the ability of seeing things in any perspective than their own, a world where people like to use a pencil eraser for everything that doesn't suit them or their insecurities, just swipe left and it doesn't exist, a world where 9 year olds have burn outs because they can't handle life, a world where studens don't come out of bed for 4 days because they couldn't recover from the fact that a computer was not available on tuesday morning in the school library and can't understand why it had to happen to them, a world where companies receive angry letters when using a beautiful model in their ads because not everyone looks like that in real life according to the writer, people campaigning that tv shows such as Idol and Top model must get taken down because not everyone is as talented and model-esque in real life, a world where "scream and stamp your feet" whenever a person is confronted with something that intimidates him/her or doesn't suit his/her insecurities until it's removed from the world and he/she feels included enough, is the norm, and I could go on for a while. To get back to the point, some things are actually not issues, except in troubled minds. We should not give in to that. If we do, it's the beginning of the end.
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Post by No. on May 27, 2018 10:03:55 GMT
Another point that’s being missed: yes casting directors would be looking for bigger girls for Tracy, which is evident in Rebecca Mendoza’s casting, but in this circumstance they’ve promoted an understudy so it’s debatable whether they looked at all. That sounds like exclusion to me even though I’m sure there were no malicious intentions.
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Post by Cardinal Pirelli on May 27, 2018 10:05:13 GMT
a man pretending to be a woman (whisper it) doesn't really work. It's been overlooked as an issue but I expect productions at some point to deal with it. I think it is not an issue at all and works perfectly, the comedic side on the one hand and if well played the sincere emotional side as well. It perfectly fits the exaggerated style of characters and looks of the show. I do think we live in a world that is getting overly sensitive to an absurd point, where everyone is offended by everything, people lose every form of resilience, people lose the ability of seeing things in any perspective than their own, a world where people like to use a pencil eraser for everything that doesn't suit them or their insecurities, just swipe left and it doesn't exist, a world where 9 year olds have burn outs because they can't handle life, a world where studens don't come out of bed for 4 days because they couldn't recover from the fact that a computer was not available on tuesday morning in the school library and can't understand why it had to happen to them, a world where companies receive angry letters when using a beautiful model in their ads because not everyone looks like that in real life according to the writer, people campaigning that tv shows such as Idol and Top model must get taken down because not everyone is as talented and model-esque in real life, a world where "scream and stamp your feet" whenever a person is confronted with something that intimidates him/her or doesn't suit his/her insecurities until it's removed from the world and he/she feels included enough, is the norm, and I could go on for a while. To get back to the point, some things are actually not issues, except in troubled minds. We should not give in to that. If we do, it's the beginning of the end. It appears that you are more interested in the ills of the world. On a purely artistic level it makes no sense that Edna is cast as male; Hairspray is not a pantomime and the content and style it aims for never gets beyond a heightened realism into an area where such casting makes sense (Matilda maybe just about makes this but I can also understand those who say a male playing Trunchbull hurts that show as well). I’m not a big fan of realism (theatrically, that is) and would much prefer a style where that sort of non traditional casting worked but they haven’t done that and, as a result, it’s unearned. I realise that many will like it because it’s funny but, as someone looking at it from a artistic perspective, I think it creates more problems than it solves.
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2018 10:42:20 GMT
I forget which creative of the Hairspray musical said it (was it Marc Shaiman?) but they were very much looking forward to Hairspray filtering down to schools so that the fat girl and the crossdressing boy could have the great roles for once.
I believe Bertie Carvel's on record as saying that not only could a woman play Trunchbull, but he very much hoped that the casting *would* flip between men and women.
A thing to bear in mind about a skinny performer playing a larger role is that someone who's been a size 6 dancer all their life probably won't understand or know to present the little things about the way a fat person lives life. How they tread lightly, keep their elbows in, do whatever they can to take up as little space as possible because they know society is judging them for the space they already occupy simply by existing. Playing a different accent from your own, they'll get you a dialect coach. If you're a non-dancing actor playing a dancer, they'll bring in someone to help with your moves. If you're playing a rabbi, they'll bring a Jewish consultant in to make sure you don't embarrass everyone. Call me a cynic, but I don't think the same thing extends to making sure your portrayal of a plus-sized character rings true somehow. Maybe it should?
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Post by joem on May 27, 2018 10:51:10 GMT
The dog which isn't barking in this debate is the size of theatre seats in the West End.
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Post by Dave25 on May 29, 2018 8:29:31 GMT
A thing to bear in mind about a skinny performer playing a larger role is that someone who's been a size 6 dancer all their life probably won't understand or know to present the little things about the way a fat person lives life. How they tread lightly, keep their elbows in, do whatever they can to take up as little space as possible because they know society is judging them for the space they already occupy simply by existing. I think this remark is a good example of what's wrong with society today. I am sure it is written with the best intentions, but what you are actually doing is harmful. You might not realize that. You are putting bigger people in a victim role by deciding for them how to feel. By generalizing they somehow should feel less or less worthy. Insecure. Too much. While that in itself is generalizing already it is especially wrong in this case. These mannerisms that every fat person probably has according to you, are not present in many fat people. Especially not in Tracy Turnblad. The role is written in a way that is the complete opposite of these mannerisms. She is not in the slightest uncomfortable with her weight. She is confident, and ready to take over the world with her personality and body. Her opening song works because there is not an inch of shame inside of her. So if we would apply that kind of reasoning, like what you describe would have anything to do with the casting of this character, we could even argue that either only girls with a suit should play the role, or big girls that are not in the slightest affected by what you describe, or at least don't show it in anything. Victim labeling does not work in this case. We should be careful with that.
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Post by shady23 on May 29, 2018 16:14:29 GMT
There's always been a bit of debate around how there has never (as far as I know) been a genuinely wheelchair-bound actress cast as Nessa in Wicked.
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Post by ellie1981 on May 29, 2018 17:56:31 GMT
There's always been a bit of debate around how there has never (as far as I know) been a genuinely wheelchair-bound actress cast as Nessa in Wicked. She'd at least have to be able to stand for a few minutes in Act 2.
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2018 18:22:28 GMT
There's always been a bit of debate around how there has never (as far as I know) been a genuinely wheelchair-bound actress cast as Nessa in Wicked. She'd at least have to be able to stand for a few minutes in Act 2. Most Wheelchair users are able to stand/be mobile for short periods of time-obviously their mobility would influence whether they could take the role, but it's a valid point that there's no reason it CAN'T be a wheelchair user in that role (unlike others where you'd perhaps have to be running skipping jumping for act 1 then in a chair for act 2 )
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Post by Dawnstar on May 29, 2018 19:26:45 GMT
The other thing that could be difficult with Nessa is that the actress appears in the ensemble in the opening number, and I believe sometimes plays one of the flatheads too, so if a genuinely disabled actress was cast then they'd need to hire another performer to cover the other parts of the track. Would the producers want to be paying two salaries rather than one?
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Post by shady23 on May 29, 2018 20:11:15 GMT
They could easily stage it slightly differently or not have her in those scenes. On tour they have two flatheads instead of two and double up Dillamond and the Wizard.
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Post by BurlyBeaR on May 29, 2018 20:21:45 GMT
The dog which isn't barking in this debate is the size of theatre seats in the West End. Woof!
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2018 21:30:35 GMT
If you'll permit me a moment to be That Person (when am I ever not?), 'wheelchair-bound' is inaccurate, as the term suggests a lack of freedom, and a wheelchair user finds the chair useful for just the opposite!
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Post by sf on May 29, 2018 22:03:30 GMT
I also think Hairspray is mostly about racial issues Not precisely. It's about difference, and embracing diversity. That encompasses race relations, which is certainly one of the show's major themes, but it also encompasses fat-vs-thin, "unfeminine" women (hence the casting of a man in the role of Edna, and all the rest of it.
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