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Post by Mr Snow on Feb 2, 2018 15:53:25 GMT
On another thread a poster (for whom I have the utmost respect) said "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" is his motto for productions.
Opera fans are mostly in agreement with him and those of you who don’t follow Opera cannot believe how stupid some of the current ‘reimagining’s’ currently are. Who knew Wagner’s imagination could be improved by having plastic crocodiles protecting the gold in the Rhine? There’s even a derogatory name for this Regietheatre. But clearly some have been a real success e.g. ENO’s Mafia Rigoletto.
Well it’s a busy Friday PM and I should be working but I was left thinking if we didn’t try out new productions we’d never have seen….
I’ll start and I hope others will join in.
I saw the original Chicago in London in the late 70’s. Kander and Ebb were on a roll following Cabaret and it ran for 900 performances on Broadway and 600 in the West End. I do remember a mixed up production and I know they directly addressed the audience in it. But it really wasn’t that memorable.
According to Wiki the 1996 version that we are familiar with today is the most successful revival ever, and the Critics clearly preferred it. I’ve seen it 3x and may never fully recover from my evening in the theatre with Ute Lemper. It's a "Yes" from me.
I would also be interested in knowing if the original production was a commercial or artistic success. I think we can ignore rewrites (Me and My Gal?), this is has to be about the production only with minimal input for the original authors and successfully reimagined.
What am I missing?
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Post by oxfordsimon on Feb 2, 2018 15:56:16 GMT
The Jonathan Miller Mikado for ENO springs to mind.
Beautifully conceived. True to the spirit of the original but wonderfully fresh
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2018 16:00:18 GMT
Excellent thread!
Would we consider the Donmar Cabaret as a substantial change? if so that's a good example (I'd argue it was with several cuts/changes to staging that altered the context etc) and this is I think something like the 3rd longest running Broadway revival? as well as setting the benchmark for the show.
I'd say the Doyle Color Purple is a candidate too. Taking what is by all accounts a mediocre score/book and making a production that was something special.
To dare to bring up the inspiring thread, I think Doyle's 2006 Company re-wrote a lot of what people thought was 'set in stone' about that musical too.
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Post by couldileaveyou on Feb 2, 2018 16:01:01 GMT
Pippin? The original Broadway production ran for almost 2000 performances in the 70s, and it was definitely a huge success. The recent circus-themed revival with a gender-swap for the Leading Player didn't run for as long as the original, but it was still quite successful, running for almost a couple of years and winning the Tony for Best Revival.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2018 16:01:23 GMT
Ooh addition of all the Sasha Regans's 'All Male' G&S productions. I rarely advocate for more all-male anything but they converted me back to a love for G&S silliness.
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Xanderl
Member
Not always very high value in terms of ticket yield or donations
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Post by Xanderl on Feb 2, 2018 16:05:51 GMT
The John Doyle actor/musician Sweeney Todd, and the pie shop Sweeney Todd
The Thom Southerland Titanic
Cape Town Opera's Soweto-set Porgy and Bess
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Post by danb on Feb 2, 2018 16:19:13 GMT
Excellent thread! Would we consider the Donmar Cabaret as a substantial change? if so that's a good example (I'd argue it was with several cuts/changes to staging that altered the context etc) and this is I think something like the 3rd longest running Broadway revival? as well as setting the benchmark for the show. I'd say the Doyle Color Purple is a candidate too. Taking what is by all accounts a mediocre score/book and making a production that was something special. To dare to bring up the inspiring thread, I think Doyle's 2006 Company re-wrote a lot of what people thought was 'set in stone' about that musical too. The Donmar ‘Cabaret’ was outstanding wasn’t it? I still have it on a VHS somewhere I think. Is it available on dvd does anyone know? |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2018 16:19:27 GMT
The John Doyle actor/musician Sweeney Todd, and the pie shop Sweeney Todd The Thom Southerland Titanic Cape Town Opera's Soweto-set Porgy and Bess How could I forget Sweeney? Honourable mention to WNO's Sweeney that tried so hard to be Doyle Sweeney but in fact just gave us erotic pie dance. Also I loved that Porgy and Bess. Honourable mention also to Bruce Guthrie's Rent which while not noticeably different on first glance did a lot of subtle re-working that altered a lot of it to the Renthead eye. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2018 16:20:40 GMT
Excellent thread! Would we consider the Donmar Cabaret as a substantial change? if so that's a good example (I'd argue it was with several cuts/changes to staging that altered the context etc) and this is I think something like the 3rd longest running Broadway revival? as well as setting the benchmark for the show. I'd say the Doyle Color Purple is a candidate too. Taking what is by all accounts a mediocre score/book and making a production that was something special. To dare to bring up the inspiring thread, I think Doyle's 2006 Company re-wrote a lot of what people thought was 'set in stone' about that musical too. The Donmar ‘Cabaret’ was outstanding wasn’t it? I still have it on a VHS somewhere I think. Is it available on dvd does anyone know? It is utterly my benchmark and I know nothing will ever measure up. I believe I have seen *cough* copies floating about in one format or the other online... |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2018 16:27:41 GMT
Pippin? The original Broadway production ran for almost 2000 performances in the 70s, and it was definitely a huge success. The recent circus-themed revival with a gender-swap for the Leading Player didn't run for as long as the original, but it was still quite successful, running for almost a couple of years and winning the Tony for Best Revival. I was also going to suggest Pippin for the Menier Chocolate Factory revival set in a computer game, which I absolutely loved. I also caught the Broadway revival which was phenomenal, not least for 66 year old Andrea Martin's turn on the trapeze but thought the Chocolate Factory beat it hands down if we're talking reimagining. |
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Post by profquatermass on Feb 2, 2018 16:36:21 GMT
Merrily We Roll Along is significantly different from the original production. There are lots of different versions of Candide. Into the Woods changes quite a lot - the recent Menier one (by Fiasco?) didn't have a narrator for example
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Post by Mr Snow on Feb 2, 2018 16:44:54 GMT
Funny how Sondheim keeps coming up.
I live in hope that someone will do a production of Candide that will show the world the genius that I see in it. But I think that’s another thread, it’s always been broke and in need of fixing but the Menier version was pretty good.
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Post by sf on Feb 2, 2018 16:46:14 GMT
Opera North's Into the Woods began in a primary school classroom; the narrator was the teacher, and he took the class of children into the woods on a field trip. It worked very well indeed, and it fixed the huge problem with the second act: as written, there is not enough of a sense of palpable danger, and it's basically a show about how it's OK to commit murder to evade the consequences of a lesser crime as long as you sing a treacly, sentimental anthem about community responsibility as you move in for the kill. With children on the stage in act two, there was a far greater sense of threat, and the show made a lot more sense.
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Post by tonyloco on Feb 2, 2018 16:53:41 GMT
I saw the original Chicago in London in the late 70’s. Kander and Ebb were on a roll following Cabaret and it ran for 900 performances on Broadway and 600 in the West End. I do remember a mixed up production and I know they directly addressed the audience in it. But it really wasn’t that memorable. According to Wiki the 1996 version that we are familiar with today is the most successful revival ever, and the Critics clearly preferred it. I’ve seen it 3x and may never fully recover from my evening in the theatre with Ute Lemper. It's a "Yes" from me. Thanks, Mr Snow, for mentioning the current re-imaginings of operas. As we know, this is a cause of much sorrow among older opera goers but this is not the place to discuss it further. But I am looking forward to seeing what other posters have to say to your question and maybe learning something about successful reimaginings of certain musicals. |
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Post by kathryn on Feb 2, 2018 17:15:58 GMT
The Donmar ‘Cabaret’ was outstanding wasn’t it? I still have it on a VHS somewhere I think. Is it available on dvd does anyone know? It is utterly my benchmark and I know nothing will ever measure up. I believe I have seen *cough* copies floating about in one format or the other online... I believe it is still on Youtube, amazingly. Having watched the excellent 'The Best Worst Thing That Ever Could have Happened' on Netflix it's obvious that Merrily has been completely revamped in subsequent productions. |
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Xanderl
Member
Not always very high value in terms of ticket yield or donations
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Post by Xanderl on Feb 2, 2018 17:27:30 GMT
How could I forget Sweeney? Honourable mention to WNO's Sweeney that tried so hard to be Doyle Sweeney but in fact just gave us erotic pie dance. I forgot another Sweeney - the Jonathan Kent / Michael Ball / Imelda Staunton one which updated the setting to the 1930s. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2018 17:32:17 GMT
Would have to say JCS. The original Broadway version was considered overblown and ran for about a year and a half. The original London production was a huge success by comparison, much simpler and created a record for the Longest Running Musical in its time. The Lyceum production was a complete reimagining again... all right, but nothing like the latest Regent’s Park production which was considered successful enough to return again... JCS is often resurrected in completely reimagined forms.
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Post by MoreLife on Feb 2, 2018 17:35:44 GMT
Though it was perhaps a "partial" reimagination, I would definitely add to the list the Deaf West + Michael Arden revival of 'Spring awakening', which explored and found new ways of giving voice to those characters by... taking their voices out of the equation.
Sadly I wasn't able to see it, but the bits of it that have been officially published online are pure magic.
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Post by sf on Feb 2, 2018 17:48:56 GMT
Having watched the excellent 'The Best Worst Thing That Ever Could have Happened' on Netflix it's obvious that Merrily has been completely revamped in subsequent productions. Not quite completely, but there was one big rewrite in the mid-80s for a production in San Diego, and then another in 1992 for the production in Leicester, and I think also a little bit of tweaking between the San Diego production and one in Washington DC around 1990, and then a bit more tweaking between the production in Leicester and the off-Broadway revival in 1994. And there were a few more tweaks, I think, for the Encores! revival a couple of years ago. On the other hand, even after all those rewrites, more than half the score is still substantially the same now as it was at the opening night on Broadway. |
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Post by kathryn on Feb 2, 2018 18:00:50 GMT
Has any production repeated the original concept of having very young people play the roles, wearing t-shirts describing who they are as costumes?
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Post by sf on Feb 2, 2018 18:18:00 GMT
Has any production repeated the original concept of having very young people play the roles, wearing t-shirts describing who they are as costumes? I don't believe any of the major professional revivals did. I'm sure it's been done in a college or amateur production, but I think the received wisdom these days is that it works best if you cast (at least) in the middle of the show's age-span. It's easier to buy 30something actors playing 20 in the final scene than 20-year-olds playing characters well into their forties at the beginning of Act One. |
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Post by crabtree on Feb 2, 2018 18:22:00 GMT
I am still waiting for Martin Guerre to find it's definitive form.
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Post by danb on Feb 2, 2018 18:29:21 GMT
Would have to say JCS. The original Broadway version was considered overblown and ran for about a year and a half. The original London production was a huge success by comparison, much simpler and created a record for the Longest Running Musical in its time. The Lyceum production was a complete reimagining again... all right, but nothing like the latest Regent’s Park production which was considered successful enough to return again... JCS is often resurrected in completely reimagined forms. Wow, thats long! I’m sure the Balsamo version was just a shade over 2 hours and that sped by. A year and a half seems ages! |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2018 18:58:01 GMT
Though it was perhaps a "partial" reimagination, I would definitely add to the list the Deaf West + Michael Arden revival of 'Spring awakening', which explored and found new ways of giving voice to those characters by... taking their voices out of the equation. Sadly I wasn't able to see it, but the bits of it that have been officially published online are pure magic. Oh how could I forget! And I’d say it was a radical re-imagining as much of it was shifted to ASL and/or a combination of spoken and ASL. And a bit actor-musician. IMO a vast improvement on the original and proof you can work with disabled actors to actually enhance the quality of the work rather than “detract” or “distract” (as old arguments used to say) |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2018 22:21:34 GMT
Would have to say JCS. The original Broadway version was considered overblown and ran for about a year and a half. The original London production was a huge success by comparison, much simpler and created a record for the Longest Running Musical in its time. The Lyceum production was a complete reimagining again... all right, but nothing like the latest Regent’s Park production which was considered successful enough to return again... JCS is often resurrected in completely reimagined forms. Wow, thats long! I’m sure the Balsamo version was just a shade over 2 hours and that sped by. A year and a half seems ages! ... one of its problems, danb ... a MD (Gareth Valentine???) who didn’t know the difference between light and shade in the score, and who took us all on a race through it. Whilst the roman arena set design courtesy of Mr Napier looked stunning, the Biblical costumes alienated the audience. There were some superb moments, and a superb cast but it just didn’t have the magic of the original. Other reinventions which have been very different and worked are: the Elena Roger/Philip Quast Evita, the latest version of The Woman in White, and the New Zealand version of Love Never Dies... ( Anything would have been an improvement on the original of that...!) I also liked the scaled down version of Grand Hotel at the Donmar. The Laurence Connor reinvention of Les Mis was excellent, as was his Phantom. I too saw the original Chicago at the Cambridge Theatre and loved it. Very colourful. A great cast. Ben Cross (before Chariots of Fire!) I thought the new version was excellent too until it started to lose its lustre. It ran too long... and lost its shine. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2018 22:28:53 GMT
Having watched the excellent 'The Best Worst Thing That Ever Could have Happened' on Netflix Good god, what was Jason Alexander thinking with that hair piece? |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2018 22:59:23 GMT
Surely the Palladium production of Oliver! directed by Sam Mendes is a good example of this?
From my understanding, the original production was fairly intimate with Sean Kenny's revolving set, but the Palladium production (and subsequently Drury Lane and tours) was more epic and cinematic with script updates by Lionel Bart and Mendes.
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Post by Someone in a tree on Feb 3, 2018 7:54:10 GMT
The MCF production of Sunday successfully used projections (was this the first Sunday to do so?!) and said you don’t need a big set and cardboard cut out monkeys.
I’m not sure if the production had anything new to say but it was still amazing and made me cry, in a good way.
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Post by danb on Feb 3, 2018 8:01:28 GMT
Wow, thats long! I’m sure the Balsamo version was just a shade over 2 hours and that sped by. A year and a half seems ages! ... one of its problems, danb ... a MD (Gareth Valentine???) who didn’t know the difference between light and shade in the score, and who took us all on a race through it. Whilst the roman arena set design courtesy of Mr Napier looked stunning, the Biblical costumes alienated the audience. There were some superb moments, and a superb cast but it just didn’t have the magic of the original. Other reinventions which have been very different and worked are: the Elena Roger/Philip Quast Evita, the latest version of The Woman in White, and the New Zealand version of Love Never Dies... ( Anything would have been an improvement on the original of that...!) I also liked the scaled down version of Grand Hotel at the Donmar. The Laurence Connor reinvention of Les Mis was excellent, as was his Phantom. I too saw the original Chicago at the Cambridge Theatre and loved it. Very colourful. A great cast. Ben Cross (before Chariots of Fire!) I thought the new version was excellent too until it started to lose its lustre. It ran too long... and lost its shine. I wasn’t aware of GV until Musicality, but had no issues with JCS at the Lyceum until Glenn Carter took over. I thought it was pretty perfect at the time tbh. Did Valentine MD ‘Anything Goes’ too? Loved that although it was hardly a reimagining. |
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Post by emsworthian on Feb 3, 2018 10:02:07 GMT
How could I forget Sweeney? Honourable mention to WNO's Sweeney that tried so hard to be Doyle Sweeney but in fact just gave us erotic pie dance. I forgot another Sweeney - the Jonathan Kent / Michael Ball / Imelda Staunton one which updated the setting to the 1930s.
I'm afraid I really didn't see the point of updating the setting to the 1930s. It is the Victorian Gothic element that I particularly love about Sweeney.
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