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Post by theglenbucklaird on Apr 30, 2019 17:26:01 GMT
No explanation as to why the Night King risked his only way of losing to go after Bran when he had the battle won easily. Bran wasn't doing anything in the battle to make him worth targeting. Even if he is special they could just wait until everyone else is dead rather than putting their one huge weak spot in the firing line.
I think Bran was his chief enemy - or rather, not Bran but the Three-Eyed-Raven who is memory. By killing the Three-Eyed-Raven the Night King erases the memory of the Living along with what's left of the living (at this stage he must have thought he was winning). The little group in the Godswood was defenseless against the Night King and his White Walkers. He just hadn't counted on Ninja-Arya to save the day. Personally I would have expected a big showdown between Jon Snow and the Night King, but that said, I believe this was the one crucial assassination that Arya had worked towards for all eight seasons.
That said, some things were rather questionable, like Melisandre saving the day (night?) twice with her fire - what chance would they have had if she hadn't turned up unexpectedly? Still, I enjoyed it very much and might have shed a tear for Ser Friendzone.
Funnily my US trip was bookended by GoT now - last week I watched the last episode with my friend just after arriving in New York, now I watched the latest episode before parting ways and me flying home.
Yep I hope there is further explanation of the Night King and Bran's relationship rather than straight onto who ever is left hates Cersei
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Apr 30, 2019 17:34:23 GMT
I enjoyed episode 3 very much, watching it with the lights off to see through the murk. Spoilers obviously (what else is this thread?). . . The choice of Arya to finish the Night King made perfect sense as her arc has been one of endless training. He was a horror villain rather than a dramatic villain, as his role was simply to scare the bejesus out of us for seven and a bit seasons, as well as prompting those characters, psychologically and morally capable of making an alliance, to make one. We knew he was a horror villain (the embodiment of death) because no attempt has ever been made to characterise him over 60 odd episodes. I was disappointed however with the battle strategy of the Stark-Targaryen alliance, which seemed to waste so many good fighters pointlessly by engaging in a charge of the Light Brigade scenario. I was also disappointed that Arya got so close to the Night King without using her faceless man disguise skill which she trained for for so long. Big picture though, with a horror villain like the Night King, Arya's goal of simply living another day (which chimed with her Season 1 sword training) seemed bang on the money, being the goal of every horror protagonist, and she fulfilled her role satisfyingly. Speaking as someone who has never read the books, from here on, Cersei's present degeneration into a total monster feels like a major weakness of the show. Allied with a camp co-conspirator like Euron, they are basically Hook and Smee from Peter Pan, a Pantomime duo. So the sooner they are dispatched, hopefully in the next episode, the better. For fan service's sake, we do need to see the Hound fight Cersei's champion The Mountain, in a fight that may see the demise of both. Ideally thereafter, Jaime Lannister will finish Cersei, completing his redemption arc by ironically becoming a Queen Slayer as well as a King Slayer. The dramatically interesting stuff comes after, with Dany and Jon and Tyrion and Sansa, et al, being complex characters with flaws. We know that Dany is tending toward tyrannous dictatorship, and Jon is too straightforward to think politically, so the influence of Tyrion and Sansa and the completion of their character arcs will be particularly interesting, and will determine how satisfying the overall conclusion of the whole show is. I look forward to it. Dothraki was a brilliant fighting force who had seen off all that had been before them. Best scene in the programme as all the lights went out. They talked about holding back the dragons as the only chance to get to the Night King, think they covered this point well. I wanted Arya to be faceless when she killed the Night King though. My friend works on this. Said the filming of the episode over fifty odd days was incredible. I say friend, he won't tell me will sit on the Iron Throne. So I won't talk to him any longer. Wow though, what an episode.
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Post by crowblack on May 1, 2019 8:33:05 GMT
Arya got so close to the Night King without using her faceless man disguise I suspect (hope) that will come in handy in King's Landing. Sansa and Tyrion could be interesting: the series had a bit of that I, Claudius, unlikeliest character will end up on the throne feel from the first episode: Dany and Jon both look doomed (that scene when Tyrion looked at the happy couple from the battlements looked like character-doom-signalling, but Brienne seems to have survived her 'she's happy so she's about to die' moment - for a bit - so maybe the series will surprise us again.). And Tyrion has been underused recently so it would be great to see him coming to the fore again (Peter Dinklage is one of the reasons I started watching the show again when the early episodes' sexposition stuff put me off).
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2019 8:40:06 GMT
It honestly would have made less sense if Arya had used her faceless training to get to the Night King. Ultimately Arya rejected the Faceless Men in favour of returning home to her family, so although she *has* the training, it's not really as important to her now as it was at the time. And she's not sneaking into anywhere to assassinate someone in a way that might call for an effective disguise; being Arya Stark doesn't put her at a disadvantage that being someone else might not in this situation. The only reason she might have needed to appear to be someone else would have been if the writers decided to leave her in the Weirwood as a pretend decoy Bran, and that wouldn't work because if the Night King can sense Bran from miles away, then he can probably tell that the Bran two feet in front of him isn't the Bran he's been sensing the whole time (also, don't people have to be dead for Arya to be able to wear their faces?).
It's cool that she has this ability, but it's not the right ability for this battle. She may yet find use for it in the south, but I don't know that it's as important anymore as people seem to want to believe it is.
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Post by peggs on May 2, 2019 22:17:13 GMT
Right finally caught up, yes lost half of it, it was so dark and even knowing what was going to happen it was very tense, I found myself physically moving to peer around doors with that whole Arya library scene. But i'm a little puzzled, I know you kill the nameless thousands but there would appear to be about a dozen people left? Cersei won't need an elephant a mouse ought to do it. Since there are three episodes left i'm assuming somehow that isn't going to be an issue so we can have a final throne off.
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Post by crowblack on May 2, 2019 22:23:28 GMT
Cersei won't need an elephant a mouse ought to do it. A sea battle, with added dragons? Or dragon, not sure if both survived.
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Post by oxfordsimon on May 3, 2019 6:43:57 GMT
Both dragons (and Ghost) survived the battle (and are featured in the episode 4 trailer)
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Post by peggs on May 3, 2019 8:13:47 GMT
We're thinking at least one is going to get shot though aren't we or is all that focus on giant bow in opener a red herring. One at least appears to have large hole in wing.
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Post by oxfordsimon on May 3, 2019 8:53:45 GMT
Other than hoping Cersei dies in a painful and slow way, I have no real clue as to how all of this will wrap up.
Which is exciting - I will just take it as it comes and hope for some decent twists
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Post by crowblack on May 3, 2019 9:26:34 GMT
at least one is going to get shot Maybe takes out Cersei in wounded Kamikaze dive on palace (or the incredibly annoying Urine in dive on battleship)
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Post by peggs on May 3, 2019 9:32:08 GMT
Yes Cersei can't go quickly surely. And she'd totally want to do a dying spitting fury speech.
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Post by crowblack on May 3, 2019 17:21:14 GMT
She might go like Ned Stark (not as quietly though) .
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Post by oxfordsimon on May 6, 2019 6:11:20 GMT
That was a slow build (with some very fast travel times for some people) but a couple of big pay off moments.
Still can't see how it is going to play out - which is how I like things
Felt genuine emotion a couple of times - Gendry, Brienne and Ghost The events at Dragonstone - did not see that coming
Cersei deserves to suffer - long, drawn out pain. Let's hope it happens soon.
Trailer for episode 5 doesn't give much away... next week looks like it will have more action
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Post by peggs on May 6, 2019 8:36:43 GMT
So Dragon fall out as expected and we knew happy couples were never going to be allowed to last. That's twice their ships have been ambushed, luck, skill or is their a mole?
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Post by theglenbucklaird on May 6, 2019 16:22:08 GMT
That was a slow build (with some very fast travel times for some people) but a couple of big pay off moments. Still can't see how it is going to play out - which is how I like things Felt genuine emotion a couple of times - Gendry, Brienne and Ghost The events at Dragonstone - did not see that coming Cersei deserves to suffer - long, drawn out pain. Let's hope it happens soon. Trailer for episode 5 doesn't give much away... next week looks like it will have more action Cersei's going to win the game of thrones
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Post by oxfordsimon on May 6, 2019 16:29:51 GMT
That wouldn't be bittersweet...
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Post by 49thand8th on May 6, 2019 20:03:54 GMT
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Post by crowblack on May 6, 2019 21:33:08 GMT
Will Sansa end up with a 7 Kingdoms Brexit for the North?
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Post by jadnoop on May 6, 2019 21:34:24 GMT
Sadly, it feels like Game of Thrones is ending in a similar way to another recent HBO powerhouse; The Wire. By no means bad -this might be a great season in another show- but as the culmination of a fantastic decade-long story this feels a bit rushed and ultimately a little unsatisfying. For most of the previous series it's felt like characters' actions were the result of their acting on their own motivations and self interest which has made the story feel so unpredictable and exciting; this season the primary driver for many seems to be to serve the mechanics of the overall plot. Still, I'm still largely enjoying it and holding out hope that this all comes together.
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2019 7:47:12 GMT
The best thing about season 5 of The Wire is I got to a point where I was thinking "hmm, we haven't seen Prez for a while, I wonder what he's been up to", and then he popped up at the end and it turned out he'd been spending the entire season just growing a beard.
I honestly think the writers are losing their grip on this season. Like, they know what needs to happen, but it's coming over more like a child breathlessly recounting his day at school - "and then we did this and then it was playtime and then I ate an apple but then a bigger boy hit me but then Miss told the bigger boy off and then we went to the library and then" - than a cohesive narrative at this point. Also, they are giving the fans a LOT of what they want, and it's not that I'm not enjoying the fanservice, but it's really very much not the same show it was back in the beginning.
Also, can we talk about Jon telling Sam that he's his best friend he ever had, while Ghost was standing RIGHT THERE? And then he didn't even say goodbye to Ghost? Dogs may be man's best friend, but I guess direwolves are just man's disposal plaything...
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Post by peggs on May 7, 2019 8:54:35 GMT
Shouldn't have dumped him for a dragon.
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Post by crowblack on May 7, 2019 9:04:45 GMT
There were some vey daft scenes - Bronn able to get into Winterfell with his crossbow (no guards at all now?), and Daenerys and co standing in front of KIng's Landing's gates where Cersei could have just killed the lot of them, job done. And Dragontone - why did the pirates shoot them, then disappear rather than finish the job?
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Post by oxfordsimon on May 7, 2019 9:19:30 GMT
I am just letting all this wash over me. It will be what it will be - never having got beyond the first few chapters of book one, I am not concerned about it being faithful to the source material.
Yes, people are moving round Westeros with enormous speed, Cersei's pregnancy is the longest in medical history (and she should be huge by now - considering how long it has been since she told ber brother that he would be a father again)
But it is still well made television - massive scale, great production values, entertaining.
There are inconsistencies - but that is true of pretty much every show to some extent. Take it for what it is and just enjoy it!
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Post by viserys on May 7, 2019 9:25:22 GMT
There were some vey daft scenes - Bronn able to get into Winterfell with his crossbow (no guards at all now?), and Daenerys and co standing in front of KIng's Landing's gates where Cersei could have just killed the lot of them, job done. And Dragontone - why did the pirates shoot them, then disappear rather than finish the job? I think they were out of range of Cersei's archers, so there was nothing she could have done. Given how little love Cersei has shown for Tyrion over the years, it was just monumentally stupid of him to walk INTO the archers' range to try and appeal to her better senses (yea right). I think the pirates' aim was to take the dragons out with the big crossbows mounted on the ships. The dragons being Dany's by far most dangerous and effective weapon. Again, monumental stupidity, this time by Dany - why didn't she torch the pirates' fleet with her dragon from above? Poor Rhaegal. First Ghost is sent off with one ear missing and not as much as a hug, then Rhaegal is shot down. Jon Snow is the worst pet owner in Westeros, can't trust him with as much as a hamster.
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Post by asfound on May 7, 2019 9:32:35 GMT
It's getting harder and harder to defend the writing that's for sure. The showrunners really should have agreed to HBO's request for two ten episode seasons to finish the story off. Then maybe we wouldn't have to keep cutting away to disguise the lacking writing (Tyrion and Bran discussion, Jon revealing his heritage, Tyrion get hit by the mast, Euron just abandoning the sea battle and teleporting to King's Landing, new prince of Dorne, Bronn and others acting out of character etc).
But the biggest issue for me is how many pointless characters were kept alive seemingly for no reason whatsoever. I defended episode 3 and it's magical main characters all surviving trope because I thought they might play an important role. But Tormund, Ghost, Davos, Pod, Missandei (sure she was captured but that could have been anyone) and Bronn seem to have no real part to play anymore.
Still, two to go, keep expectations low and even if it doesn't go out with the bang I hoped for it should still be a fun spectacle if nothing else. Hopefully GRRM has given them something good to work with.
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Post by orchidman on May 7, 2019 12:34:02 GMT
It's almost unbelievable how quickly the show has jumped off a cliff. There were 4 great series, up there with the best ever. Then series 5 and 6 stupid stuff started happening more and more but it was still very good TV. Series 7 was worse again, undoubtedly trash TV, but entertaining trash and you could forgive them if they were focusing on setting things up for the last series.
Then this series opens with 2 pointless setup episodes, at least they weren't actively terrible, just not a good sign when it's a six episode series. Episode 3 ridiculously bad, Episode 4 somehow even worse, stupidity absolutely off the scale, characters acting out of character and having dropped about half their IQ, complete discontinuity with established norms.
One of the show runners said of the dragon getting ambushed: "While Dany kinda forgot about the Iron Fleet and Euron's forces, they certainly haven't forgotten about her."
Unreal.
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Post by crowblack on May 7, 2019 13:44:10 GMT
complete discontinuity with established norms. But they've lost most of their guiding figures and we're down to a core of increasingly isolated, mostly young characters whose extreme and uncompromising drives aren't tempered by wisdom.
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Post by oxfordsimon on May 7, 2019 13:45:49 GMT
It's almost unbelievable how quickly the show has jumped off a cliff. There were 4 great series, up there with the best ever. Then series 5 and 6 stupid stuff started happening more and more but it was still very good TV. Series 7 was worse again, undoubtedly trash TV, but entertaining trash and you could forgive them if they were focusing on setting things up for the last series. Then this series opens with 2 pointless setup episodes, at least they weren't actively terrible, just not a good sign when it's a six episode series. Episode 3 ridiculously bad, Episode 4 somehow even worse, stupidity absolutely off the scale, characters acting out of character and having dropped about half their IQ, complete discontinuity with established norms. One of the show runners said of the dragon getting ambushed: "While Dany kinda forgot about the Iron Fleet and Euron's forces, they certainly haven't forgotten about her." Unreal. I wonder why you are still watching - as you don't seem to be deriving any pleasure from it. Yes, there are flaws - but I can look beyond that and just enjoy it for what it is.
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2019 13:54:40 GMT
One of my defining personality traits is that I am not a quitter. If I set myself to run the London Marathon, for instance, although my feet would be bleeding and I would be nine hours behind the leaders, I would FINISH the damn race. I am, however, a whiner, and would be visibly and audibly sad the entire way round. So I completely understand why someone would choose to finish a TV show, having invested this much time in it so far and with the end so close you can taste it, even while being disappointed that said show has gone off the boil.
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Post by orchidman on May 7, 2019 14:11:30 GMT
I could still enjoy the previous series, it's the last two episodes which have totally killed it. And now after 71 episodes there are only 2 episodes left so of course I am going to see it out. And I have quite a few friends who watch it, none of whom think it's good any more, so it makes for entertaining conversation.
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