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Post by crowblack on Apr 22, 2019 18:17:26 GMT
For the killed twice... I'm going for Hodor Oh gosh yes, that would be horrible...though was there was much of him left to resurrect?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2019 18:41:05 GMT
Who was the guy Brienne was running about with in yesterday’s episode? I didn’t remember him but he was clearly meant to be ‘somebody’? Her squire Podrick? Gosh was that Pod?! I really didn’t recognise him. A few of the blokes seem to have changed their hairstyles and it’s proving a bit confusing. Took me a minute to recognise Gendry last week too.
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Apr 22, 2019 19:12:08 GMT
Gosh was that Pod?! I really didn’t recognise him. A few of the blokes seem to have changed their hairstyles and it’s proving a bit confusing. Took me a minute to recognise Gendry last week too. Odds on Pod went single figures in week leading up to S8 E1 for being on iron throne
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Post by orchidman on Apr 23, 2019 21:56:38 GMT
The writing has gone to pot since they went beyond the books. The plan to capture the wight and whatever was happening with Littlefinger in the last series got close to shark-jumping territory, and everyone basically ignoring Bran is not far off either. The show was at one point absolutely first-rate, with one of the best depictions of politics ever, now it's just another TV show, albeit one with a dizzying budget and a residue of good characters.
It will be very disappointing if it all ends predictably with the heroes on top when what captured people's imaginations in the first place was the way it subverted genre cliches. But that's the way it's going, so much lately has been to give the audience what they want.
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Post by crowblack on Apr 28, 2019 17:11:09 GMT
The crypt has been WAY too talked about GoT's trailer Tweet doesn't give much away (obvs!), but ends with the line "the dead are already here". I think most fans on Twitter are now expecting undead Starks (I'm also hoping for a dragon fight to the death).
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Post by oxfordsimon on Apr 29, 2019 4:19:37 GMT
F*cking hell. That was intense.
Not sure I kept up with who is dead and who isn't. But that will go down in history as a major piece of television - whether you like the show or not, that was, if nothing else, a huge technical achievement.
Very sparse in terms of dialogue - but the storytelling was, on the whole, clear
Some very big moments - and a few tears.
Bravo GoT Team. Bravo
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Post by kathryn on Apr 29, 2019 7:21:53 GMT
If that’s really it for the Night King and the prophecies, and the next 3 episodes are all about the politics of who gets the ruddy throne, then that’s a huge anticlimax as far as I’m concerned. And probably a sign that GRRM was making it up as he went along and is stuck because he doesn’t have a satisfactory ending for all of the prophecy and foreshadowing he has been playing with.
What happened to the mystery and the magic?
And those are the worst battle tactics I’ve ever seen!
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Post by peggs on Apr 29, 2019 8:21:07 GMT
Oh some of those were sad. Is anyone left to fight the mad blond one even without elephants?
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Post by oxfordsimon on Apr 29, 2019 8:34:56 GMT
If that’s really it for the Night King and the prophecies, and the next 3 episodes are all about the politics of who gets the ruddy throne, then that’s a huge anticlimax as far as I’m concerned. And probably a sign that GRRM was making it up as he went along and is stuck because he doesn’t have a satisfactory ending for all of the prophecy and foreshadowing he has been playing with.
What happened to the mystery and the magic?
And those are the worst battle tactics I’ve ever seen!
{Spoiler - click to view} I couldn't disagree more. It has been the politics that has always been at the heart of my enjoyment of the show. Far more interested in the human rather than the fantasy. It was a spectacular piece of television - whether or not you agree with the decision to kill the Night King. I can't wait to see how the Plantagenet storyline pans out - it is still very much a War of the Roses show in my mind. And that is one of my favourite periods of history. Cersei is a far more dangerous villain compared to the Night King. She is unpredictable and capricious. Seeing her defeat will be very satisfying.
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Post by kathryn on Apr 29, 2019 12:48:45 GMT
oxfordsimon that seems entirely contrary to the ambition of the books, to me.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2019 13:27:49 GMT
oxfordsimon that seems entirely contrary to the ambition of the books, to me. My husband gave up on the books because "you think it's going to be about dragons and ice zombies, but then GRRM gives you three books of politics" so it seems entirely plausible to me. Didn't GRRM say that the problem with Tolkein was that he was too caught up in the magical and not the fundamentals of the society?
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Post by kathryn on Apr 29, 2019 13:54:07 GMT
I have to admit, it's been a long time since I read the last book (it takes so blimmin' long for GRRM to write them!). But book-Cersei as we left her was very different from show-Cersei, so I have a hard time seeing her in the position the show has her in, and I was thoroughly tired of the political stuff (and most of the characters, who really are horrible. Everyone on the show is more sympathetic than in the book just because they're played by real human beings.).
It was only the mythology that was keeping my interest piqued - there's a whole lot more world-building in the books, it feels like a much bigger world with a lot more history and intrigue going on. I have suspected for some time that GRRM has painted himself into a corner and doesn't actually know where he is going, though.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2019 15:38:29 GMT
I have suspected for some time that GRRM has painted himself into a corner and doesn't actually know where he is going, though. Sadly, I agree. I sort of live in hope that he has actually written book 6 and book 7, but I very much doubt it at this point. The whole Daenerys storyline is a mess in the books and she is absolutely no where close to sailing off to Westeros. So I woke at 2am last night to watch the latest episode and boy was I glad when it finished - I don’t think I breathed at all for 90 minutes. In the end I feel it was a lot of tension with very little overall pay off. I did enjoy it a lot, but I expected more I think. No way am I getting up at 2am again. I’ve literally died a slow death today at work. Edit: Bank holiday Monday next week. I’m totally up at 2am.
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Post by kathryn on Apr 29, 2019 15:56:59 GMT
Did anyone here read the Wheel of Time books? That had similar problems with its ending - it had gone on so long and gotten so complicated that actually paying it all off in a satisfying way became impossible.
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Post by NeilVHughes on Apr 29, 2019 16:13:13 GMT
If you are watching this tonight you may have to change your picture settings, a lot of the scenes were so dimly lit it was difficult to make out the characters as the action shot by at a breakneck speed and you tried to see who was still living. {Spoiler - click to view} All the main characters fight to live another day.
Not one to be a foot soldier, not sure how large the army going South will be but at least they still have two Dragons.
Maybe would have preferred all the mysticism to be purged (Dragons) as we now focus on the human battle which is a more complex and twisting narrative than the Dead who were one dimensional (we are many then lets fight)
The Shakespeare influence continues, HenryV, limited primary character casualties in the set piece primary battle, now we move back to HenryVI where the politics take centre stage.
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Post by orchidman on Apr 29, 2019 17:31:59 GMT
Just laughably bad and insulting to the audience's intelligence. The white walkers had been setup as the existential threat from the very first episode and they go out in comical fashion. All the heroic characters throughout who have taken this threat very seriously look stupid while Cersei who is supposed to be the villain is proved right.
No explanation as to why the Night King risked his only way of losing to go after Bran when he had the battle won easily. Bran wasn't doing anything in the battle to make him worth targeting. Even if he is special they could just wait until everyone else is dead rather than putting their one huge weak spot in the firing line. The longer the battle lasts the better for the Night King who can raise the dead to his side, not only does he have no incentive to take risks to accelerate matters, he has strong incentives to do the opposite, his army won't tire or need refuelling.
Ridiculously bad strategy on both sides. Why would the living launch an attack at night when they could sit tight in their castle and send out the dragons? Who was in charge of the living's strategy? Why weren't they using Bran's magical visions to aid them? They knew killing a white walker would take out loads of others but didn't target them in battle?
The red priestess deus ex machina at the start and and Arya deus ex machina at the end. Basically all the major characters can't be killed no matter how perilous their situation unless to save another more major character.
So much stuff that was setup just obliterated without a payoff. Reminds me of Lost. Probably why the guy can't finish his books, he knows he can't resolve things satisfyingly, the TV writers don't even care to try.
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Post by crowblack on Apr 29, 2019 19:30:09 GMT
Just laughably bad and insulting to the audience's intelligence. I've got mixed feelings so far - the Night King showdown was disappointing, two enigmatic characters just looking a each other a bit and then pow! - but we have three episodes to go so maybe we'll have more explanation of their motives, history etc.. As it is, enemy-wise they've been more Jaws than Sauron. The crypt undead were rather underplayed, too - maybe it would have been better to spend more time with that horror than with Arya in the impossibly quiet library (was the silence in the midst of a siege a library joke?). The tension was good though, or was until my Now TV box got a glitch just as the dead swarmed over the walls. I assumed, for the rest of the episode, that Brienne and Jaime had died heroically while I was troubleshooting!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2019 19:49:23 GMT
100,000 soldiers die in 30 seconds but the obvious people survive to the end.
The whole thing was so dark that I had no idea who lived and died during the battle.
it really tested my patience and nowhere near clear storytelling.
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Xanderl
Member
Not always very high value in terms of ticket yield or donations
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Post by Xanderl on Apr 29, 2019 20:33:03 GMT
Yeah, I found that really dull and had no idea what was going on - just murky shapes against a murky background edited far too quickly.
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Post by indis on Apr 29, 2019 20:53:53 GMT
think i am the only person who never saw an episode of the show )) only know the girl with the dragons from pictures , she looks cool! and that Snow-man where is it possible to see the first episodes ? is it on amazon or netflix already?
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Post by viserys on Apr 29, 2019 21:00:09 GMT
No explanation as to why the Night King risked his only way of losing to go after Bran when he had the battle won easily. Bran wasn't doing anything in the battle to make him worth targeting. Even if he is special they could just wait until everyone else is dead rather than putting their one huge weak spot in the firing line.
I think Bran was his chief enemy - or rather, not Bran but the Three-Eyed-Raven who is memory. By killing the Three-Eyed-Raven the Night King erases the memory of the Living along with what's left of the living (at this stage he must have thought he was winning). The little group in the Godswood was defenseless against the Night King and his White Walkers. He just hadn't counted on Ninja-Arya to save the day. Personally I would have expected a big showdown between Jon Snow and the Night King, but that said, I believe this was the one crucial assassination that Arya had worked towards for all eight seasons.
That said, some things were rather questionable, like Melisandre saving the day (night?) twice with her fire - what chance would they have had if she hadn't turned up unexpectedly? Still, I enjoyed it very much and might have shed a tear for Ser Friendzone.
Funnily my US trip was bookended by GoT now - last week I watched the last episode with my friend just after arriving in New York, now I watched the latest episode before parting ways and me flying home.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2019 21:13:18 GMT
I need a play-by-play of that episode, I couldn't see a goddamned thing for at least an hour of it (though I saw enough to see three of my favourites die, honestly, it was more stressful than Bake Off). Let's have some damn politics to round it all off now please.
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Post by crowblack on Apr 29, 2019 22:39:26 GMT
where is it possible to see the first episodes ? Now TV, which I think (but check) has a monthly subscription format you can cancel and has all series online, but only for a limited time, till 31st May. I bought second hand blurays on Amazon - you can pick up box sets of the earlier series quite cheaply.
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Post by crowblack on Apr 29, 2019 22:42:00 GMT
Night King showdown was disappointing Theon was great though - he's been one of my favourites all the way through. And Ser Jorah. Ah well.
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Post by orchidman on Apr 30, 2019 0:21:51 GMT
No explanation as to why the Night King risked his only way of losing to go after Bran when he had the battle won easily. Bran wasn't doing anything in the battle to make him worth targeting. Even if he is special they could just wait until everyone else is dead rather than putting their one huge weak spot in the firing line.
I think Bran was his chief enemy - or rather, not Bran but the Three-Eyed-Raven who is memory. By killing the Three-Eyed-Raven the Night King erases the memory of the Living along with what's left of the living (at this stage he must have thought he was winning). The little group in the Godswood was defenseless against the Night King and his White Walkers. He just hadn't counted on Ninja-Arya to save the day. Personally I would have expected a big showdown between Jon Snow and the Night King, but that said, I believe this was the one crucial assassination that Arya had worked towards for all eight seasons. Sure, it still relies on the Night King who has previously seemed pretty strategic acting like a complete moron. The only way he can lose this battle is to get killed. He can't be killed by dragon fire and he seems to know this. So he's just got to stay away from Valyrian steel blades. All he has to do is wait for the battle to be properly won, then go after Bran who can't fight. He's waited 1000 years for the Wall to fall but he can't wait about 12 hours for his army to finish the job. Now if he was an actually fleshed out character with known personality traits he could make such a pathetic mistake and it could work. When he's portrayed as a (near) unstoppable force of nature it's just pathetic.
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Post by asfound on Apr 30, 2019 7:02:31 GMT
Just laughably bad and insulting to the audience's intelligence. The white walkers had been setup as the existential threat from the very first episode and they go out in comical fashion. All the heroic characters throughout who have taken this threat very seriously look stupid while Cersei who is supposed to be the villain is proved right. No explanation as to why the Night King risked his only way of losing to go after Bran when he had the battle won easily. Bran wasn't doing anything in the battle to make him worth targeting. Even if he is special they could just wait until everyone else is dead rather than putting their one huge weak spot in the firing line. The longer the battle lasts the better for the Night King who can raise the dead to his side, not only does he have no incentive to take risks to accelerate matters, he has strong incentives to do the opposite, his army won't tire or need refuelling. Ridiculously bad strategy on both sides. Why would the living launch an attack at night when they could sit tight in their castle and send out the dragons? Who was in charge of the living's strategy? Why weren't they using Bran's magical visions to aid them? They knew killing a white walker would take out loads of others but didn't target them in battle? The red priestess deus ex machina at the start and and Arya deus ex machina at the end. Basically all the major characters can't be killed no matter how perilous their situation unless to save another more major character. So much stuff that was setup just obliterated without a payoff. Reminds me of Lost. Probably why the guy can't finish his books, he knows he can't resolve things satisfyingly, the TV writers don't even care to try. I don't think it was as bad as that although I have mixed feelings. The Night King had essentially won the battle. There were just a handful of survivors left when he confronted Bran at the Godswood. Everyone there was wiped out other than Theon and there were a few stragglers elsewhere. He's not omniscient, I don't he can account for every last person. I also don't think it's fair to call Melisandre or Ayra deus ex machinas when their respective roles had been foreshadowed pretty much since the very beginning and many references and hints were made along the way. There were also references in previous episodes as to why they didn't want to risk the dragons since they are vulnerable to those ice javelin things and they only have two of them. But I do agree somewhat with your first point - we've had so much build up, since the prologue of the first episode in fact, so many scenes showing this unstoppable march, of what a apocalyptic force they are - for it all to finish in one episode was a little disappointing. And despite a couple of major characters dying, I was rolling my eyes the way all the main characters were left standing at the end with all the cannon fodder wiped out. A little too Hollywood. But even that I can justify to some extent because I guess they are all the people that have survived before and so are probably the most resilient. My biggest complaint was probably the Now TV stream over-compression making everything pixelated, smudgy and juddering. In already hazy, dark scenes it made it impossible to see what was going on at times.
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Post by crowblack on Apr 30, 2019 8:17:42 GMT
Mine was Ok but did conk out at one point. It's one of those small (3 by 3 approx) boxes and I use an ethernet cable because my BT wifi is crap.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2019 8:20:19 GMT
If it helps, I was watching on SkyHD and it was still largely impossible to see what was going on. My mother's going to have a fit when she comes round to try catching up...
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Post by MrsCondomine on Apr 30, 2019 8:30:13 GMT
This show looooves killing off my lovely grizzled old men, doesn't it? I mean, it loves killing off everyone, but all my faves are out of the race now and I don't care who gets the throne. I know none of 'em were going to get near the throne but now I'm going to go into my Mourning Corner and have a cry over {Spoiler - click to view} Stannis, Balon, JORAH MY LOVE<3
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Post by Steve on Apr 30, 2019 16:15:01 GMT
I enjoyed episode 3 very much, watching it with the lights off to see through the murk. Spoilers obviously (what else is this thread?). . . The choice of Arya to finish the Night King made perfect sense as her arc has been one of endless training. He was a horror villain rather than a dramatic villain, as his role was simply to scare the bejesus out of us for seven and a bit seasons, as well as prompting those characters, psychologically and morally capable of making an alliance, to make one. We knew he was a horror villain (the embodiment of death) because no attempt has ever been made to characterise him over 60 odd episodes. I was disappointed however with the battle strategy of the Stark-Targaryen alliance, which seemed to waste so many good fighters pointlessly by engaging in a charge of the Light Brigade scenario. I was also disappointed that Arya got so close to the Night King without using her faceless man disguise skill which she trained for for so long. Big picture though, with a horror villain like the Night King, Arya's goal of simply living another day (which chimed with her Season 1 sword training) seemed bang on the money, being the goal of every horror protagonist, and she fulfilled her role satisfyingly. Speaking as someone who has never read the books, from here on, Cersei's present degeneration into a total monster feels like a major weakness of the show. Allied with a camp co-conspirator like Euron, they are basically Hook and Smee from Peter Pan, a Pantomime duo. So the sooner they are dispatched, hopefully in the next episode, the better. For fan service's sake, we do need to see the Hound fight Cersei's champion The Mountain, in a fight that may see the demise of both. Ideally thereafter, Jaime Lannister will finish Cersei, completing his redemption arc by ironically becoming a Queen Slayer as well as a King Slayer. The dramatically interesting stuff comes after, with Dany and Jon and Tyrion and Sansa, et al, being complex characters with flaws. We know that Dany is tending toward tyrannous dictatorship, and Jon is too straightforward to think politically, so the influence of Tyrion and Sansa and the completion of their character arcs will be particularly interesting, and will determine how satisfying the overall conclusion of the whole show is. I look forward to it.
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