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Post by infofreako on Jul 20, 2017 10:41:53 GMT
Place holding is much more common on broadway I believe. The idea of someone effectively buying their place at the front of the queue doesnt sit well with me though. As @emicardiff has said it takes that place away from those for whom cheap dayseats are their only way to afford the ticket
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2017 10:43:12 GMT
Re: the queuing for days comment...I'm inclined to agree it's at the very least skewed priorities! Re: placeholders. It bugs me too. Day seats are often the preserve of those who can't afford full price tickets so paying someone to stand in the queue does bother me as it's the 'someone with more means' taking away (hypothetically obviously for a given queue) from someone who was there waiting because they couldn't afford it any other way. Tis the way of the world I know, but doesn't mean it don't bother me Hadn't even occurred to me that money would change hands! I just thought they had a generous London-based friend who took the early shift while they schlepped in from the sticks... I clearly have a lot to learn I don't know that it always does but New York has actual place holder services (of course it does, you can order anything in NY!!) where people sit in say, the Hamilton line for people all day. I wouldn't object to a buddy doing it for a buddy- say someone worked near the NT and said 'yeah no worries fella I'll get in early and save your spot while you schlep in from Colchester' I don't think I'd have a problem with that. The latter is like when my London friends are in a queue where you can have 2 per person while I'm still dying a death on the 7.15 National Express (and they're dying a death listening to rampant Killian Donnelly fans...never happened honest)
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Post by Backdrifter on Jul 20, 2017 11:08:38 GMT
What do we think about the place-holder? In the Angels dayseat queue recently the bloke at the front left when another bloke arrived and took his place, so Bloke 1 had been keeping the spot for him. From previous discussions of this I get the impression most people have no problem with it but it bothers me. Bloke 2 arrived some time after I did but still got first place. I don't like it! Don't have a problem with it - one out one in, leaves me where I was to start with. But in the case of, say, this Angels queue, if Bloke 2 arrived at what was obviously his preferred time without Bloke 1 placeholding, he'd have arrived after me and I'd be one place further along. So it wouldn't be a straight swap.
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Post by Backdrifter on Jul 20, 2017 11:12:10 GMT
That's an interesting take on it - if it's as a paid service that's worse then friends helping each other out. For me it's irksome either way. If that's the time you're arriving, that's your place in the queue.
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Post by CG on the loose on Jul 20, 2017 11:15:16 GMT
Don't have a problem with it - one out one in, leaves me where I was to start with. But in the case of, say, this Angels queue, if Bloke 2 arrived at what was obviously his preferred time without Bloke 1 placeholding, he'd have arrived after me and I'd be one place further along. So it wouldn't be a straight swap. But Bloke 1 WAS place-holding so you weren't one place further along. Sorry, but I still don't have a problem with it, save in the "paying to place-hold" scenario discussed in other comments. I live a long way from London so getting to a day-seat queue very early is impossible unless I stay in town the night before which rather defeats the object of queuing for cheap tickets! If I had a friend generous enough to get up early and hold my place, I would be extremely grateful to them and really not feel that I was depriving anyone else.
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Post by infofreako on Jul 20, 2017 11:18:09 GMT
Its a tricky one but I think if its a friend doing it for genuine reasons I don't have as much of a problem with it as I do if it's someone paying someone else to queue
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Post by Tibidabo on Jul 20, 2017 11:21:08 GMT
I agree with CG on the loose - if I'm still the same number when I get to the end as I was when I started I honestly couldn't care less how many place holders there are. And, controversially, I even couldn't care less if money has exchanged hands. Doesn't affect me....not my money.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2017 11:26:37 GMT
For what it's worth I see both sides- I'm one who travels as well and can of course see the advantages of it. I just feel a little uncomfortable with the idea of 'affordable' day seats being 'won' by those with the means to pay for someone to sit there.
But it's hardly a criminal offence! Not like say your 5 screaming fangirl mates rocking up 10 minutes before Box Office opens and cutting in front...
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2017 11:29:40 GMT
To be honest, the only thing that annoys me about paying someone to get up at some ungodly hour to be at the front of the queue is that I didn't think about doing it.
I may just start up a business using little children queueing up at day seat queues all over London for a small fee. I'll be like the Fagin of London's glitzy West End. Obviously without the rampant theft.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2017 11:47:17 GMT
To be honest, the only thing that annoys me about paying someone to get up at some ungodly hour to be at the front of the queue is that I didn't think about doing it. I may just start up a business using little children queueing up at day seat queues all over London for a small fee. I'll be like the Fagin of London's glitzy West End. Obviously without the rampant theft. but all the sex appeal.*
*disclaimer I have never found Fagin sexy in my life.
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Post by Steffi on Jul 20, 2017 12:12:17 GMT
I don't see a problem with two friends playing tag team in a day seats queue. I've done it with a friend both in London and in New York and it never caused any trouble. One of us gets to the queue early and makes sure to inform the people who arrive afterwards that a friend will come and release her at a specific time. It doesn't make a difference in the number of tickets sold as we are still getting two. I don't mind if someone in front of me in the queue does the same.
On Broadway it is indeed quite common for friends to do this. I'm not a fan of paying someone to hold your place in the queue. But if it's friends who are simply sharing the time spent in line then I'm cool with it.
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Post by lynette on Jul 20, 2017 14:31:15 GMT
Ryan, it is the school summer hols - you have a good little business proposition there. Go for it.
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Post by kathryn on Jul 20, 2017 17:49:49 GMT
But in the case of, say, this Angels queue, if Bloke 2 arrived at what was obviously his preferred time without Bloke 1 placeholding, he'd have arrived after me and I'd be one place further along. So it wouldn't be a straight swap. But Bloke 1 WAS place-holding so you weren't one place further along. Sorry, but I still don't have a problem with it, save in the "paying to place-hold" scenario discussed in other comments. I live a long way from London so getting to a day-seat queue very early is impossible unless I stay in town the night before which rather defeats the object of queuing for cheap tickets! If I had a friend generous enough to get up early and hold my place, I would be extremely grateful to them and really not feel that I was depriving anyone else. Yes, I have a London-based theatre buddy who can get into dayseat queues much earlier than me. We always make it clear that she was going to get 2 tickets anyway when I join 90 minutes later with tea. (That's the deal - she gets there early and I get the tea.)
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Post by Backdrifter on Jul 20, 2017 18:18:24 GMT
What material difference does it make to anyone here who is fine with the place-holding friend making their announcement if, instead, the announcement is "Hi everyone, just to let you know, I'm being paid to hold this spot in the queue, my client will be along at 9 to take my place and will be buying two tickets."
And I maintain that with the queue I was in the other day, the placeholder did make a difference to everyone else's position. I don't think he had intended to buy any tickets, or go to the play. He was there purely as a favour to the later-arriving friend, who was then able to take the number 1 position that had been held. I can see the point others are making if the placeholder was going anyway and in that sense it doesn't matter which of them is physically there. But if the placeholder isn't attending, then Late Arriver Guy has bumped us all along one compared to the situation had he not had that spot held, and turned up at the same time. That scenario isn't any different from the paid professional placeholder one, other than that they aren't friends, it's purely business.
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Post by viserys on Jul 20, 2017 18:47:53 GMT
What material difference does it make to anyone here who is fine with the place-holding friend making their announcement if, instead, the announcement is "Hi everyone, just to let you know, I'm being paid to hold this spot in the queue, my client will be along at 9 to take my place and will be buying two tickets." I think others already explained the difference: Dayseats/Rush Tickets are cheap tickets aimed at fans who can't afford good seats at regular prices. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think the whole custom started at Rent on Broadway, which had a very dedicated young fanbase and offered the first two rows in the stalls for a very low price every day so that the fans could see the show several times, bring friends along, etc. Based on my limited experience in London it seems to be mostly young people or elderly people in the dayseat queues, two groups that are not exactly flush with money most of the time. For them the dayseats are the only chance to see shows from close-up. I mean, yea, sometimes you can snag 10-20 pound seats in the Gods or something, but are far away. When a show is sold out or nearly sold out, all that's usually left are unaffordable top price or premium seats, so the cheap dayseats are the only chance to get in. Now you get some well-earning visitor to New York City thinking "hrm, would love to take the missus out to (insert popular show) tonight but there are only premium seats that cost us $500 for two. I rather pay this bloke $100 to stand in line for $40 rush tickets for us. We pay $180, save $320, very nice, means a great meal with some expensive wine and a bit of shopping as well. Money this person can easily afford but which pushes those out who can't afford any regular priced tickets and who could only afford the $40 tickets. Basically they are being priced out of one of the few options they still have.
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Post by infofreako on Jul 20, 2017 18:55:00 GMT
Put far better than I would have done viserys. No material difference at all but I see dayseats as a great pathway into developing a love of theatre. If that easily accessible route to those good seats go to people who can afford to pay someone to queue then a door into theatre going for young people slams shut
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Post by Backdrifter on Jul 20, 2017 21:36:03 GMT
This is getting a bit... well I'm not sure what word to use. If a reasonably well-paid 40-something person placeholds for their friend who's another reasonably well-paid 40-something person who shows up at 9am while their mate heads off, job done, is that still okay as it's not a business arrangement, or actually not 100% okay as they are depriving a young or elderly person of those dayseats?
And I'd contest that dayseats are intended for those who can't afford good seats at regular prices. They're certainly of appeal for those people, of course, but unless there's a specific scheme such as the Spacey Old Vic's under-25s front row one, they're there for anyone who strongly prefers front row and is prepared to put in the effort and queueing time, and they help keep a buzz going for that production.
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Post by infofreako on Jul 20, 2017 21:50:34 GMT
Its mostly cant be bothered to argue with someone who is arguing just for the sake of it. Peoples opinions differ to yours. That doesnt make either opinion right or wrong. It does make going back and forth on it incredibly tedious though. Have fun arguing it out
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Post by Backdrifter on Jul 20, 2017 22:05:19 GMT
I didn't think it was an argument, but anyway thanks for the insight.
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Post by poster J on Jul 20, 2017 23:16:11 GMT
And I maintain that with the queue I was in the other day, the placeholder did make a difference to everyone else's position. I don't think he had intended to buy any tickets, or go to the play. He was there purely as a favour to the later-arriving friend, who was then able to take the number 1 position that had been held. Quite simply, it made no difference whatsoever. You got exactly the same ticket you would have got regardless of who was in front of you, as at any given time there was always one person in front of you and there was always going to be one person buying before you - who that person is is irrelevant for the purpose of calculating the ticket availability. Not sure why that's so difficult to comprehend - your maths in terms of claiming everyone was bumped down a place simply doesn't work as you've admitted it was a replacement, not an additional person.
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Post by Backdrifter on Jul 21, 2017 7:24:55 GMT
I promise to everyone this will be my final comment on this thing. Honest!
Man 1 was position 1 in the queue. He was apparently not going to the play, just holding that spot for his friend, Man 2, who arrived at a time when there were now about 15 people queueing. So, had Man 2 not got his friend to do that, and assuming Man 2 arrived at his "preferred" time, he'd have been about 15th/16th, Man 1 would never have been part of the equation, Person 2 in the queue would have always been Person 1, etc.
Anyway I'm now at the same point infofreako reached (which I'm sure probably everyone has long passed as well!) of wanting this to end, so my apologies to all.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2017 8:03:24 GMT
Just to confirm what Viserys said above the first 'Dayseats' were indeed the Rent lotto/dayseat queue and were very much designed to allow all fans (considering the young demographic of the show) to afford Broadway tickets. The producers said (I have the actual quote at home but paraphrasing) we want the people who the show is about to be able to see the show. Many other shows quickly saw that allowing young people (as it has always been predominantly younger audiences who make up the queue because it's the only way they CAN afford it and/or being College students or whatever have time to as well)and it has always been considered a means of accessibility. Indeed theatres today use it as a selling point about their show being 'affordable' and 'accesible'. I'm not getting back into the rights and wrongs of paying someone- I gave my opinion earlier. But Dayseats happen to be a quirk of both my research and day job knowledge so I thought I'd share
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2017 8:35:41 GMT
Ryan, it is the school summer hols - you have a good little business proposition there. Go for it. I'm going to call the business Jafar because: "If you want a day seat but can't be arsed to queue, call us and we'll get a lad in!"
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2017 8:58:52 GMT
Ryan, it is the school summer hols - you have a good little business proposition there. Go for it. I'm going to call the business Jafar because: "If you want a day seat but can't be arsed to queue, call us and we'll get a lad in!" hahaha Ryan I love you.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2017 11:10:04 GMT
^still and all, though, TAXI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Jul 21, 2017 16:52:00 GMT
Yes it would be lovely to suppose that dayseats are gratefully queued for by Pot Noodle eating students and theatre loving OAP's in their twighlight years who haven't had the lights on for three weeks in order to save up the twenty quid.
When from what I've seen on this very forum it's a group of very savvy, avid theatre-goers, bombing around London's dayseat queues, snapping up tix so they can see two or three productions a week.
The very concept is hugely discriminatory and from what's described above regarding Rent a million miles away from its well intentioned origins.
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Post by infofreako on Jul 21, 2017 17:37:22 GMT
Yes it would be lovely to suppose that dayseats are gratefully queued for by Pot Noodle eating students and theatre loving OAP's in their twighlight years who haven't had the lights on for three weeks in order to save up the twenty quid. When from what I've seen on this very forum it's a group of very savvy, avid theatre-goers, bombing around London's dayseat queues, snapping up tix so they can see two or three productions a week. The very concept is hugely discriminatory and from what's described above regarding Rent a million miles away from its well intentioned origins. Well I genuinely use them as it tends to be the only way I can afford theatre, and often even then its a struggle. If only i could afford to stretch that to 2 or 3 productions a week or even a month. I appreciate your analysis isnt a catch all though.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2017 17:47:01 GMT
Just for clarity I was just backing up the above post about the origins. I'm not stupid/naive enough to think that's exactly how they're used.
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Jul 21, 2017 17:50:59 GMT
Yes it would be lovely to suppose that dayseats are gratefully queued for by Pot Noodle eating students and theatre loving OAP's in their twighlight years who haven't had the lights on for three weeks in order to save up the twenty quid. When from what I've seen on this very forum it's a group of very savvy, avid theatre-goers, bombing around London's dayseat queues, snapping up tix so they can see two or three productions a week. The very concept is hugely discriminatory and from what's described above regarding Rent a million miles away from its well intentioned origins. Well I genuinely use them as it tends to be the only way I can afford theatre, and often even then its a struggle. If only i could afford to stretch that to 2 or 3 productions a week or even a month.I appreciate your analysis isnt a catch all though. Likewise! But I'm one of the many mugs paying full whack for planned ahead London tickets and full whack when productions tour so that west end Wayne's and Wendy's can take advantage of all those tasty discounts that I'm subsidising. Not resentful. No no noooooooooo!
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Post by infofreako on Jul 21, 2017 18:09:04 GMT
Full price i should be so lucky
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