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Post by alicechallice on Apr 21, 2017 19:35:50 GMT
Started a thread that got closed down, I forgot about this one. Well as the locked thread suggests "The West End Gets its First Unisex Toilet". The Vaudeville Theatre. I used this just last week due to the excitement of seeing Amanda Holden! The gents is in fact just urinals, so you have to use the unisex if you need to do more. Or if you're pee-shy. In which case the alley probably isn't advisable either
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Post by bellboard27 on Apr 21, 2017 22:20:55 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2017 22:44:27 GMT
Yes, I read a while back that the Barbican's attempt at inclusivity hadn't been entirely well planned.
Unisex loos are fine if the cubicle also has a sink and hand dryer, ie if it's entirely self-contained. But when you're faced with rows of individual cubicles and then step out to wash your hands, you're on trickier territory. How many women are going to want to walk past a row of chaps standing at urinals to reach the gender neutral cubicle(s) in what was formerly the gents'? (I've seen it happen in mainland Europe when the queue for the ladies' is huge, and neither gender bats an eyelid - except if they're British, in which case they find it all a bit...surprising.)
So how does it work at the Vaudeville? Seems daft to deprive the blokes of a cubicle. Why should they have to queue with the ladies for one cubicle when we girls will have a room full of them? (I know, our queues are generally longer precisely because blokes don't usually need a cubicle...but it's all a bit embarrassing for the guys that do, surely?)
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Post by d'James on Apr 21, 2017 22:50:46 GMT
I'm trying to think what the toilets were like there before. It's certainly making me think twice about going to that Theatre.
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Post by Phantom of London on Apr 21, 2017 23:42:13 GMT
If you had unisex toilets, you couldn't have male urinals. I agree if we had unisex toilets, it should have there own wash down facilities. Also it is more welcoming to people who have been through the gender reassignment process.
The Vaudeville is a gorgeous theatre, with lovely gold leaf and plenty of leg room, however the guest services there are appalling, never understood why they never acquired a shop next door and use this to improve their facilities.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2017 23:59:36 GMT
Whenever I find myself in unisex toilets I find myself apologising profusely to all females inthere for my presence. I always feel disrespectful but then that's my issue
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Xanderl
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Not always very high value in terms of ticket yield or donations
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Post by Xanderl on Apr 22, 2017 6:17:44 GMT
I was there the other week. This is not the main theatre and hall toilets, it's downstairs where Cinema 1 and The Pit are. It's really stupid! What was the gents has two or three urinals and one cubicle. You have to walk past the urinals to get to the cubicle. Presume what was the ladies has 3 cubicles. So effectively they've made the ladies loos available to men, but the layout of the gents means I can't see women feeling comfortable walking through to the cubicle. Although I guess to make a point if a bunch of women formed a queue for the cubicle in the gents they could effectively put the urinals out of use. Don't see a problem with unisex toilets if it's in a layout like the Understudy bar at the National or the Union theatre, with just a bunch of cubicles: if the Barbican wanted to make this change they needed to reconfigure the space in the loos not just put a new sign up.
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Post by bellboard27 on Apr 22, 2017 8:44:37 GMT
Just remembered that the Bunker Theatre has had one set of unisex toilets since it opened.
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Post by bellboard27 on Apr 22, 2017 8:53:46 GMT
The Vaudeville is a gorgeous theatre, with lovely gold leaf and plenty of leg room Agree with all except leg room - guessing POL has never sat in the circles there... Are we still talking about going to the toilet?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2017 12:38:31 GMT
if the Barbican wanted to make this change they needed to reconfigure the space in the loos not just put a new sign up. Absolutely. And I'm sure mrslovett has nothing to apologise for, but his comment makes a good point: if all of us can use toilets interchangeably, how are women guaranteed safety from a potential molester, and how are men guaranteed assurance against potential fake allegations of sexual assault? The idea of the sexes sharing toilet facilities like this is ludicrous. Privacy is there for a reason. I'm all for keeping transgender people safe when they are using the facilities, but we can't make one section of society safer by putting another at risk. To make toilets truly unisex, we need a heck of a lot of building/design work!
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Post by Dawnstar on Apr 22, 2017 17:25:53 GMT
^Excellent points. Also frankly I don't want to have to walk past a line of men using a urinal in order to be able to go the loo myself. If I wanted to see men relieving themselves I could go to a Calixto Bieto production!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2017 17:48:41 GMT
^Excellent points. Also frankly I don't want to have to walk past a line of men using a urinal in order to be able to go the loo myself. If I wanted to see men relieving themselves I could go to a Calixto Bieto production! And I could go to the small area of parkland near my flat where the drunks hang out all day. Sometimes literally.
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Post by The Matthew on Apr 22, 2017 20:34:41 GMT
^Excellent points. Also frankly I don't want to have to walk past a line of men using a urinal in order to be able to go the loo myself. It's not unisex if there are urinals, unless the women are feeling adventurous. The whole point of unisex toilets is that there's no differentiation: the same facilities are available to all.
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Post by kathryn on Apr 22, 2017 20:52:43 GMT
There's plenty of unisex toilets around. Go into any Pret or Starbucks and the (often single) toilet will be unisex. You just have to design them that way so they're safe for everyone.
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Post by Honoured Guest on Apr 22, 2017 20:58:02 GMT
A unicycle has one wheel A unicorn has one horn Unison sound has one sound
A unisex toilet?
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Post by bellboard27 on Apr 22, 2017 21:32:23 GMT
A unicycle has one wheel A unicorn has one horn Unison sound has one sound A unisex toilet? Would bisexual toilet be the correct term?
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Post by showgirl on Apr 22, 2017 22:08:24 GMT
An inclusive toilet?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2017 9:38:27 GMT
Gender neutral.
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Post by Honoured Guest on Apr 23, 2017 10:11:21 GMT
Women may be unaware that many men urinate into cubicle toilets from a standing position with the seat down and leave pools of piss on the floor and seat. Probably marking their territory? If I were a woman, this habit would deter me from using the same cubicles as these men. Obviously, women who visit Costa and Starbucks are already well aware of this practice.
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Post by Honoured Guest on Apr 23, 2017 10:14:15 GMT
Go into any Pret or Starbucks and the (often single) toilet will be unisex. You just have to design them that way so they're safe for everyone. Not true. For example, the Pret a Manger across the road from the Arts Theatre has separate, subterranean, toilets for men and women.
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Post by Polly1 on Apr 23, 2017 11:11:36 GMT
As I've posted in thread on the Bridge Theatre, they are boasting that they have 30 ladies' loos!!
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Post by The Matthew on Apr 23, 2017 12:10:07 GMT
Women may be unaware that many men urinate into cubicle toilets from a standing position with the seat down and leave pools of piss on the floor and seat. [...] If I were a woman, this habit would deter me from using the same cubicles as these men. I'm a man and it deters me from using the same cubicles as those men. You can't dismiss an idea just because stupid people make it less than perfect. Stupid people make everything less than perfect.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2017 20:17:31 GMT
I know most men are entirely hygienic but my experience of unisex toilets is that they are often vile. St Martins has some and all that does is provide men with extra toilets because most women prefer to queue for the women-only bogs rather than use them.
Also what if you're on a first date? Would be awful to end up weeing next to each other!
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Post by Phantom of London on Apr 23, 2017 21:18:59 GMT
Agree with all except leg room - guessing POL has never sat in the circles there... Are we still talking about going to the toilet? I haven't sat in the circle. BTW the way that is one of the best posts this year Bellboard27.
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Post by Phantom of London on Apr 23, 2017 21:31:18 GMT
if the Barbican wanted to make this change they needed to reconfigure the space in the loos not just put a new sign up. Absolutely. And I'm sure mrslovett has nothing to apologise for, but his comment makes a good point: if all of us can use toilets interchangeably, how are women guaranteed safety from a potential molester, and how are men guaranteed assurance against potential fake allegations of sexual assault? The idea of the sexes sharing toilet facilities like this is ludicrous. Privacy is there for a reason. I'm all for keeping transgender people safe when they are using the facilities, but we can't make one section of society safer by putting another at risk. To make toilets truly unisex, we need a heck of a lot of building/design work! Good fair point. But we are talking about neutral toilets in the theatre, when you have 15-20 minutes in the interval, with a long line, so I think the risk of molestation is minimal. you think the Old Vic where the ladies is next to the gents and suffer horrendous queues, so if you had a good architect and knocked these together it could be possible to increase the number of cubicles as you have. Ore flexibility, when you remove walls, you could also illuminate the wash basins creating more space, if you had the wash down in the cubicles, like the Arcola.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2017 22:28:27 GMT
Absolutely. And I'm sure mrslovett has nothing to apologise for, but his comment makes a good point: if all of us can use toilets interchangeably, how are women guaranteed safety from a potential molester, and how are men guaranteed assurance against potential fake allegations of sexual assault? The idea of the sexes sharing toilet facilities like this is ludicrous. Privacy is there for a reason. I'm all for keeping transgender people safe when they are using the facilities, but we can't make one section of society safer by putting another at risk. To make toilets truly unisex, we need a heck of a lot of building/design work! Good fair point. But we are talking about neutral toilets in the theatre, when you have 15-20 minutes in the interval, with a long line, so I think the risk of molestation is minimal Yes, sorry, I wasn't clear - I wasn't just thinking about theatre loos, but about toilet facilities more widely. (Even in a place as big as Westfield shopping centre, for example, I've occasionally found myself alone in the toilets.)
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Post by Phantom of London on Apr 23, 2017 23:47:16 GMT
No worries, I get you point and did say it is a "good fair point"', I would say you couldn't do this everywhere and somewhere like a park or a council one in a car park would be at risk of molestation and voyerism. As it happens where I go swimming, it has unisex changing area and in this day and age I have to think being a single male, I try and get a changing cubicle with an empty one either side, as I don't want allegations levelled at me, so it dies cut both ways.
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Post by d'James on Apr 24, 2017 0:11:03 GMT
I've had women threaten to accuse me of assault before because I wouldn't let them push in front of me at a bar. I would not want to go up against one of them (the accusing type, not women in general) if they were desperate for the toilet. (It was at this country's supposed best University - I am certainly worried for the future.)
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2017 0:26:54 GMT
I think if we are to have gender neutral toilet facilities then they have to be separate from the mens and womens. There are always going to be men that would prefer to use urinals (which women rightly shouldn't have to walk past) and there are always going to be women that want to relieve themselves away from men. Plus, there is a whole culture around ladies toilets, they're not just there for the obvious. Particularly on nights out (in clubs/pubs/bars), the ladies toilets become a bit of a safe haven for women to have a chat with each other and get away from what's going on outside, which is why women often go to the toilet together. Perhaps something similar happens in men's toilets and I just don't know about it. Are men going to feel comfortable using urinals in front of women and are women going to feel comfortable asking each other for tampons in front of men? I doubt it.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2017 18:36:58 GMT
I love that Jimmy Carr line, but I think the problem (if we can call it that) probably lies more with women here. I'm sure I read a report recently that said that women are still embarrassed to open packaging on sanitary products even in loos that are women only! Goodness knows how we'd cope knowing there might be a bloke in the next cubicle...People will be dying of embarrassment all over the place. ;-)
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