|
Post by profquatermass on Aug 25, 2023 10:15:47 GMT
MIsgendering happens absolutely all the time. I was at a WE theatre last week with a cisgender female friend who happened to be wearing trousers and a t-shirt (and whose breasts aren't particularly small) and someone challenged her in the queue for the ladies. She said it wasn't the first time this had happened.
Why anyone thought a bloke would voluntarily queue for the loo remains a mystery
|
|
4,028 posts
|
Post by kathryn on Aug 25, 2023 11:24:13 GMT
Like I said, some people have become paranoid, and some people will misread even the most obvious information when they’re not paying proper attention to it. Particularly when they’ve been enjoying some pre-show ‘refreshments’. Of course that happens.
But it’s usually quickly cleared up once someone speaks, moves, is viewed from a different angle, etc.
There’s a whole bunch of cues that we as a species use. Confusion usually happens when people are over-relying on one or two of them.
Not to also get into all the impairments people can have in their cognitive abilities and visual acuity that will naturally affect this. Nothing human is perfect.
|
|
2,946 posts
|
Post by crowblack on Aug 25, 2023 11:54:24 GMT
Confusion usually happens when people are over-relying on one or two of them. Also a young generation so wrapped up in a befuddling mix of reality star post-Kardashian culture and gender identity ideology that a bog standard 80s 'Diana' or 90s indie kid haircut or a preference for trousers and comfy clothes rather than an insta-pout and spray-on leggings is now rebranded a sign a girl is 'non-binary' or wannabe-boy.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2023 0:53:33 GMT
Confusion usually happens when people are over-relying on one or two of them. Also a young generation so wrapped up in a befuddling mix of reality star post-Kardashian culture and gender identity ideology that a bog standard 80s 'Diana' or 90s indie kid haircut or a preference for trousers and comfy clothes rather than an insta-pout and spray-on leggings is now rebranded a sign a girl is 'non-binary' or wannabe-boy. Diana and the Kardashian's mentioned in the same sentence the biggest difference in class ever. How would the young generation have got on with all that 80's big hair and perms and that was just the blokes!
|
|
|
Post by kit66 on Sept 28, 2023 17:03:05 GMT
Just back from my first visit to @sohoplace.What's with the toilet signs!Didn't realise you had to be a member of MENSA to spend a penny!
|
|
|
Post by toomasj on Sept 28, 2023 18:39:31 GMT
Just back from my first visit to @sohoplace.What's with the toilet signs!Didn't realise you had to be a member of MENSA to spend a penny! Go on…?
|
|
|
Post by sfsusan on Sept 28, 2023 18:59:16 GMT
a preference for trousers and comfy clothes rather than an insta-pout and spray-on leggings is now rebranded a sign a girl is 'non-binary' or wannabe-boy. This actually isn't terribly new. In 1950s/60s US, I was labeled a tomboy because I hated frilly dresses and wanted my hair short. My dad nicknamed me "Charlie" and Mom made him stop because she was worried I'd be confused if I was a boy or a girl.
|
|
|
Post by sfsusan on Sept 28, 2023 19:02:02 GMT
Just back from my first visit to @sohoplace.What's with the toilet signs! Didn't realise you had to be a member of MENSA to spend a penny! The Old Vic must get more questions about the toilets than anything. Instead of labeling male/female, they say something like "urinals" and "6 cabinets". At the interval, staff constantly have to answer "where are the ladies' toilets?".
|
|
2,946 posts
|
Post by crowblack on Sept 28, 2023 19:40:08 GMT
a preference for trousers and comfy clothes rather than an insta-pout and spray-on leggings is now rebranded a sign a girl is 'non-binary' or wannabe-boy. This actually isn't terribly new. In 1950s/60s US, I was labeled a tomboy because I hated frilly dresses and wanted my hair short. My dad nicknamed me "Charlie" and Mom made him stop because she was worried I'd be confused if I was a boy or a girl. Me and most of my friends would have been classed as tomboys, so would my mum in her day - it was seen as a normal part of growing up: it's even used on the cover of a 1952 American period education pamphlet I have ('You're a Young Lady Now!)' and the later 60s version. The issue now is that it's being forgotten. A dislike of frocks and princess tat is taken as a sign you're not really a girl after all. I've have a friend who talks like this about a girl pupil who doesn't want to be a bridesmaid - proof she's really a boy, apparently. It's at that level. It's exasperating!
|
|
|
Post by kit66 on Sept 28, 2023 22:29:33 GMT
Just back from my first visit to @sohoplace.What's with the toilet signs!Didn't realise you had to be a member of MENSA to spend a penny! Go on…? There are two triangles - one "point to base" 🔺️ the other "base to point"🔻.Each have a circle above the triangle.I guess is the "head" . I assume the one with the point to base 🔺️ means a dress being worn eg a woman - the base to point 🔻 possibly means shoulders referring to a male.Both are slightly more offensive stereotypes than if they had gone with the usual male/female To be fair when you get to the door there's either an M or F above each symbol so I think the signs have been causing some confusion.
|
|
2,946 posts
|
Post by crowblack on Sept 29, 2023 9:17:22 GMT
I thought for a moment there they were doing genital symbols which tbh seems like the only logical way out of the tangled mess Theatreland's love of gender ideology has got them into. They could get someone like Julian Opie to do some tastefully vague drawings of genitals and stick them on the doors - a triangle and a line maybe. If you've got these bits, this is where you go.
|
|
5,571 posts
|
Post by lynette on Sept 29, 2023 11:13:38 GMT
There are two triangles - one "point to base" 🔺️ the other "base to point"🔻.Each have a circle above the triangle.I guess is the "head" . I assume the one with the point to base 🔺️ means a dress being worn eg a woman - the base to point 🔻 possibly means shoulders referring to a male.Both are slightly more offensive stereotypes than if they had gone with the usual male/female To be fair when you get to the door there's either an M or F above each symbol so I think the signs have been causing some confusion. HILARIOUS
|
|
2,946 posts
|
Post by crowblack on Feb 5, 2024 23:06:04 GMT
Hum. I see from Twitter the Donmar have gone from their notoriously inadequate toilet provision for women to forcing women to share with men in entirely mixed sex toilets. How lovely. Not.
|
|
|
Post by alessia on Feb 6, 2024 9:53:40 GMT
Hum. I see from Twitter the Donmar have gone from their notoriously inadequate toilet provision for women to forcing women to share with men in entirely mixed sex toilets. How lovely. Not. Donmar has had mixed toilets for a long time now. Even the men aren't happy about it, a few times I've had awkward/apologetic looks from (esp older) guys who clearly feel out of place in there
|
|
|
Post by theatrelover97 on Feb 6, 2024 11:29:20 GMT
Suspect it will soon be illegal for any building to have only mixed sex toilets
|
|
764 posts
Member is Online
|
Post by ladidah on Feb 6, 2024 14:14:37 GMT
Off topic I know, but the Portrait Gallery has tiny, mixed toilets with individual stalls and it's chaos. Everyone rowing, dozens of people waiting
|
|
4,943 posts
Member is Online
|
Post by TallPaul on Feb 6, 2024 15:02:04 GMT
Sorry if this is a controversial view in 2024, but men prefer to go to the toilet surrounded by other men, and women overwhelmingly prefer to be surrounded by other women.
Let's face it, men are mucky buggers. I am one! If there was space in most marital homes, there would, 100%, be his 'n' bathrooms.
|
|
|
Post by sph on Feb 6, 2024 16:27:10 GMT
The theatre that managed this the best that I came across was the (now closed) newest version of Above the Stag in Vauxhall. One large room filled with cubicles with a sink in the middle. Then a separate room to the side with some urinals in it for those not needing a cubicle. Worked very well.
(Although people who say women keep their toilets cleaner have probably never had to clean a public toilet...)
|
|
2,946 posts
|
Post by crowblack on Feb 6, 2024 18:40:37 GMT
The theatre that managed this the best that I came across was the (now closed) newest version of Above the Stag in Vauxhall. One large room filled with cubicles with a sink in the middle. Then a separate room to the side with some urinals in it for those not needing a cubicle. Worked very well. (Although people who say women keep their toilets cleaner have probably never had to clean a public toilet...) It's still an enclosed space not overseen by staff or cctv. If you're in the venue at a quiet time it could just be you (a woman) and a man or men, or a man could follow you in, as happened to a teenage girl raped in the mixed sex toilets at a fashionable bar in my local city centre last year.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2024 19:11:23 GMT
Well, this is one thread I wish I never stumbled into.
|
|
|
Post by matty on Feb 6, 2024 21:47:38 GMT
Hum. I see from Twitter the Donmar have gone from their notoriously inadequate toilet provision for women to forcing women to share with men in entirely mixed sex toilets. How lovely. Not. The toilets on the stalls level at the Donmar are still pretty much single sex, while they're not labelled as such, one is all cubicles and one has urinals and a single cubicle
|
|
|
Post by sph on Feb 7, 2024 2:09:11 GMT
Ok then, let's keep them divided into men and women and let trans women use the ladies and trans men use the mens.
(Just as we did for decades before the media decided that the "outrage" and viewing figures on trans-based stories meant that they were worth exploiting)
|
|
|
Post by cavocado on Feb 7, 2024 10:10:16 GMT
Hum. I see from Twitter the Donmar have gone from their notoriously inadequate toilet provision for women to forcing women to share with men in entirely mixed sex toilets. How lovely. Not. The toilets on the stalls level at the Donmar are still pretty much single sex, while they're not labelled as such, one is all cubicles and one has urinals and a single cubicle This is what most mixed sex toilets are - relabelling of the women's as 'cubicles' and the men's as 'urinals plus one cubicle', so your 'pretty much single sex' just relies on people choosing according to the previous classification. The trouble is, it only takes one man to choose the 'cubicles' for a lot of women to feel uncomfortable or unsafe. And it's also infuriating because the vast majority of women will not want to use that one cubicle in the 'urinals', so it just means longer queues for us. If catering for one group involves making another group anxious, fearful or uncomfortable, then the solution isn't working and needs rethinking.
|
|
|
Post by sfsusan on Feb 8, 2024 0:58:50 GMT
Parisian restaurant toilets frequently have just one or two rooms off a shared hallway... which sometimes has a urinal in the corner. The first time I walked down the hallway and realized there was a guy using the urinal, I turned around and walked out, assuming I'd somehow entered the men's room. I don't mind a room with closed stalls serving both men and women, but an open urinal still unnerves me.
|
|
1,621 posts
|
Post by fiyero on Feb 8, 2024 20:20:26 GMT
At cabaret last week there was a big queue for the urinals and cubicles but no queue for the cubicles. I’m a big guy and didn’t want to squish past the ones waiting for a cubicle so just told them more cubicles next door. Being British they just saw a queue (first option you get to in the downstairs bar) and joined it!
|
|
4,028 posts
|
Post by kathryn on Feb 10, 2024 21:11:17 GMT
Funny queue conversation in the Old Vic loos this afternoon. As usual the signage (cubicals only and cubical+urinals) was causing a bit of confusion, but people had managed to figure out that the men should use the one with urinals in.
Lady in the queue: ‘oh, are they gender neutral then? What a stupid idea’ Me: ‘Yes, they’re mixed sex, but what you do is point out to the men that the other one doesn’t have a queue….’
🙄 Still can’t believe that given the demographics of the Old Vic’s actual audience and their clear preference for sex-segregated loos that the management went along with it.
|
|
145 posts
Member is Online
|
Post by cartoonman on Feb 23, 2024 10:07:29 GMT
I was at the Barbican last week and there was a good 50 yard queue for the Ladies in the basement of the main building. I saw a women go into the Gents. Good idea. The Milton Court theatre for the Guildhall School of Music has unisex WCs but not enough of them. They have concertina doors but people often struggle to open them from within. I seem to recall that there was a British Standard committee for theatre WCs but it was disbanded. Milton Court is only 10 years old so it was built without enough toilets. If it had urinals for the gents then it would free up the WCs for the women. Urinals for women are available, but I don't think they would be popular. (I'm a man) I think one was called the Lady P.
|
|
764 posts
Member is Online
|
Post by ladidah on Feb 23, 2024 12:34:54 GMT
Must have been 60 plus waiting for the ladies in the Gillian Lynne last night, awful.
They push you to buy expensive drinks then agree to building 3 cubicles.
|
|