310 posts
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Post by showoff on Aug 2, 2017 17:03:14 GMT
I so wanted to watch this as I love the book.
I recorded it on tivo and had so many to catch up on, but could never bring myself to as I know how grim it is, and I believe they have gone even further in this than the book.
How the world is at the moment, it just seems a little too much.
I hope I can get to it eventually, but it's so long all together that I think I'll wait until they world appears to be a better place.
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2018 14:25:53 GMT
I know what you mean, TM - it feels too aware of what it's doing now, in a way. I guess they made the first series in blissful ignorance of how it would be received (and had the book as a guide even if they went beyond it) but the second series was presumably made in full knowledge of the overwhelming reception it had. It now has huge cultural and political significance* and it must be hard not to be influenced and to an extent play to that.
*For eg, I thought it was really striking to see women dressed in the Handmaids' outfits during the Irish referendum campaign; a direct, instant way to make the point about women's reproductive autonomy, or lack of.
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4,038 posts
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Post by kathryn on May 29, 2018 14:46:38 GMT
Possibly it’s also because the mode of resistance has changed in the story. It has moved from being internal resistance and outward conformity to active resistance and action.
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2,706 posts
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Post by Cardinal Pirelli on May 29, 2018 15:44:08 GMT
It gets more problematic as it goes on, for those watching at US speed up to episode six (warning, look no further if not). Vague references to follow but maybe a bit spoilery, so.... {Spoiler - click to view} It appears to me that the writers are trying to persuade us that resistance to extremism is akin to denying freedom of speech and, further, is also actually a root cause of that extremism. Maybe they’ll turn it around but it would be too late, as at this point it looks like a deliberately provocative analogy to present day America. On the other hand, still loving Westworld; complex but dynamic storytelling and great performances, especially from Thandie Newton.
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2018 15:49:04 GMT
It gets more problematic as it goes on, for those watching at US speed. Vague references to follow but maybe a bit spoilery, so.... {Spoiler - click to view} It appears to me that the writers are trying to persuade us that resistance to extremism is akin to denying freedom of speech and, further, is also actually a root cause of that extremism. Maybe they’ll turn it around but it would be too late, as at this point it looks like a deliberately provocative analogy to present day America. On the other hand, still loving Westworld; complex but dynamic storytelling and great performances, especially from Thandie Newton. Oh God, is going to turn out that {Spoiler - click to view} everything that happens to the women is actually their own fault??
Well, that certainly is very zeitgeisty, I suppose...
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2,706 posts
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Post by Cardinal Pirelli on May 29, 2018 16:11:08 GMT
It gets more problematic as it goes on, for those watching at US speed. Vague references to follow but maybe a bit spoilery, so.... {Spoiler - click to view}It appears to me that the writers are trying to persuade us that resistance to extremism is akin to denying freedom of speech and, further, is also actually a root cause of that extremism. Maybe they’ll turn it around but it would be too late, as at this point it looks like a deliberately provocative analogy to present day America. On the other hand, still loving Westworld; complex but dynamic storytelling and great performances, especially from Thandie Newton. Oh God, is going to turn out that {Spoiler - click to view}everything that happens to the women is actually their own fault??
Well, that certainly is very zeitgeisty, I suppose... {Spoiler - click to view - DO NOT READ unless you are up to episode SIX!!}Well, it’s more than hinted at by episode six. Not just women but all those who tried to stop the ideas that led to Gilead being heard. It also touches on when direct action is needed; seeming to suggest that it was counter productive before Gilead happened but laudable during it. Pretty much all history shows how authoritarian regimes that take root are hard to dislodge, so that’s a view that’s difficult to agree with. It’s as though the writers think they have to be even handed, given how the American people are watching their own farcical daily version, but it’s a dystopia folks, Orwell didn’t try and excuse the regime in 1984, the rulers of Metropolis weren’t really misunderstood!
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Post by londoncalling on May 29, 2018 16:23:33 GMT
The great problem for me is understanding the purpose; what is the socio-politicl direction, what debate is it contributing towards? And if it's not contributing to the US zeitgeist then I don't know.
Fwiw, I thought the role of women in a dystopian society was dealt with fully square on and superbly well in The State on C4 last year (BAFTA nominated) - that was about the real world, our world now. This fancy Hollywood version of something not in focus provides a vehicle for the really very good producer/actor Elizabeth Moss but, awards and personal accolades aside, to what end ..
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4,038 posts
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Post by kathryn on May 29, 2018 17:20:18 GMT
Does there have to be an end, a purpose? It’s an adaptation of a book - that the book still seems topical all these years after it was first published is deeply troubling, obviously, but it could have been adapted a decade ago or a decade hence and still be good television.
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Post by londoncalling on May 29, 2018 17:47:53 GMT
The first series was an adaptation, they've departed from the text this series. Though they have bought the right to continue with the title from Atwood.
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7,491 posts
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Post by alece10 on Aug 7, 2018 10:44:23 GMT
Never known a series to take so long to go nowhere. I presume there is a third series?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2018 10:56:27 GMT
Yes I agree
It’s become self indulgent
And so slow
Repetitive
The lack of any actual plot content
Is quite frustrating
The shocks are too infrequent
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2018 10:57:01 GMT
Never known a series to take so long to go nowhere. I presume there is a third series? Apparently they wish for many series Like 7+ God help Us
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2,706 posts
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Post by Cardinal Pirelli on Aug 7, 2018 11:20:04 GMT
For those who’ve not yet got to the end, it pays off well. I thought it was getting too grim but stick with it.
It’s interesting to see how they use storytelling of ideas rather than heavy plotting (Westworld has both, which makes it doubly intense). You need to take time to think when it gives you time to, it is making interesting parallels and, rather than blitz the audience with images and twists, it allows you to measure it against yourself and your own world,
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Post by nick on Aug 8, 2018 19:36:30 GMT
Never known a series to take so long to go nowhere. I presume there is a third series? I disagree. It's slow but there was a real feeling of growing unease and unrest. Gilead is getting more violent but also more desperate. It cannot continue for long. The Commanders are turning on themselves. We've seen commanders, wives, handmaids, Marthas, guards and ordinary citizens all rebelling - not any Aunts interestingly. There's also rumblings from other countries. And, despite handmaids being in the weakest position, the way June is changing - trying to rebel and then backing down - is rising to a place where she will stop backing down. I'm hoping the next series is the last with Gilead falling apart with June kicking ass.
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7,491 posts
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Post by alece10 on Aug 9, 2018 6:03:05 GMT
Never known a series to take so long to go nowhere. I presume there is a third series? I disagree. It's slow but there was a real feeling of growing unease and unrest. Gilead is getting more violent but also more desperate. It cannot continue for long. The Commanders are turning on themselves. We've seen commanders, wives, handmaids, Marthas, guards and ordinary citizens all rebelling - not any Aunts interestingly. There's also rumblings from other countries. And, despite handmaids being in the weakest position, the way June is changing - trying to rebel and then backing down - is rising to a place where she will stop backing down. I'm hoping the next series is the last with Gilead falling apart with June kicking ass. Blimey. You certainly see a lot more than me. I have to have the volume turned up to even hear what little dialogue there is. Maybe there is another Gilead rule that you have to mumble. And how come it's been winter for the last 2 series? Saying that I will no doubt watch the next series just to see if anything happens.
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Post by nick on Aug 9, 2018 6:40:37 GMT
Blimey. You certainly see a lot more than me. I have to have the volume turned up to even hear what little dialogue there is. Maybe there is another Gilead rule that you have to mumble. And how come it's been winter for the last 2 series? Saying that I will no doubt watch the next series just to see if anything happens. It is set in Maine where there can be a lot of winter. Can't help with the mumbling but that's just modern TV isn't it? They do seem to have long almost silent bits then a burst of quick important dialogue. It's one of those shows where I have to concentrate and not be distracted by my phone. The looks between characters are really important unlike other programs that can be "watched" almost like radio shows.
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Post by nick on Aug 9, 2018 6:45:46 GMT
I'm fascinated that Gilead is only about 5 years old. They created that society in FIVE years - wow they must have been ruthless - well we know that to be true.
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2,706 posts
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Post by Cardinal Pirelli on Aug 9, 2018 9:52:18 GMT
I disagree. It's slow but there was a real feeling of growing unease and unrest. Gilead is getting more violent but also more desperate. It cannot continue for long. The Commanders are turning on themselves. We've seen commanders, wives, handmaids, Marthas, guards and ordinary citizens all rebelling - not any Aunts interestingly. There's also rumblings from other countries. And, despite handmaids being in the weakest position, the way June is changing - trying to rebel and then backing down - is rising to a place where she will stop backing down. I'm hoping the next series is the last with Gilead falling apart with June kicking ass. Blimey. You certainly see a lot more than me. I have to have the volume turned up to even hear what little dialogue there is. Maybe there is another Gilead rule that you have to mumble. And how come it's been winter for the last 2 series? Saying that I will no doubt watch the next series just to see if anything happens. Nuclear winter, even a localised nuclear series of blasts is likely to affect climate for decades. Weather patterns have also been mentioned as causing problems. They haven’t hidden this even if they haven’t spelled out what happened.
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486 posts
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Post by wiggymess on Aug 9, 2018 10:56:09 GMT
Growing increasingly frustrated with this show and when people are suggesting it could go on for 10 seasons that just puts a whole new twist on things. Doubt I'll watch after this season.
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486 posts
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Post by wiggymess on Aug 9, 2018 11:34:28 GMT
Just seems a little cynical and forced to say it will run for that long. I can't see how on earth they could sustain it - I feel like the ground is already being retreaded fairly well.
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Post by nick on Aug 9, 2018 13:37:52 GMT
June's story can only sustain 3 maybe 4 series. They could open it out but it would become a different series.
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Post by nick on Aug 9, 2018 17:41:58 GMT
That's one way of putting it.
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1,903 posts
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Post by sf on Aug 9, 2018 19:03:07 GMT
It is set in Maine where there can be a lot of winter. Massachusetts. The book takes place in and around what used to be Boston and Cambridge, and so does the TV series. This season we've seen the offices of the Boston Globe - with Boston Globe logos clearly visible - and what we were told was Fenway Park. I think it's filmed in Toronto. Toronto, Hamilton, and Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge. There are occasional glimpses of downtown Toronto (City Hall and Bay subway station in the first season episode where June escapes from the Red Center), the Waterford house is in Hamilton, and the bridge and the walkway along the river are in Cambridge. They've also used the conservatories in Allan Gardens in downtown Toronto, the block of Wellington Street where the CBC building is located, the lobby, the ballroom, and various other rooms in the Royal York Hotel, a couple of buildings on the UTM (University of Toronto at Mississauga) campus, and a rather nice coffee shop on Queen East called Bonjour Brioche that I used to go to quite often when I lived in Toronto (that's where the barista calls Moira and June sluts for wearing form-fitting sportswear when they were out for a run). "Little America" is the Esplanade, an area on the fringe of downtown Toronto close to the St. Lawrence Market.
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Post by nick on Aug 10, 2018 8:38:15 GMT
It is set in Maine where there can be a lot of winter. Massachusetts. The book takes place in and around what used to be Boston and Cambridge, and so does the TV series. This season we've seen the offices of the Boston Globe - with Boston Globe logos clearly visible - and what we were told was Fenway Park. I think it's filmed in Toronto. Toronto, Hamilton, and Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge. There are occasional glimpses of downtown Toronto (City Hall and Bay subway station in the first season episode where June escapes from the Red Center), the Waterford house is in Hamilton, and the bridge and the walkway along the river are in Cambridge. They've also used the conservatories in Allan Gardens in downtown Toronto, the block of Wellington Street where the CBC building is located, the lobby, the ballroom, and various other rooms in the Royal York Hotel, a couple of buildings on the UTM (University of Toronto at Mississauga) campus, and a rather nice coffee shop on Queen East called Bonjour Brioche that I used to go to quite often when I lived in Toronto (that's where the barista calls Moira and June sluts for wearing form-fitting sportswear when they were out for a run). "Little America" is the Esplanade, an area on the fringe of downtown Toronto close to the St. Lawrence Market.
I stand corrected. I've never been to the US but have cousins in Maine. They talk about visiting Boston and, for some reason, I had assumed Boston was in Maine. And you know way too much about the locations ;-) I'm tempted to riposte with the Catford locations used in the TV play Babs but it's much less exotic.
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Post by nick on Aug 10, 2018 11:33:46 GMT
I'm tempted to riposte with the Catford locations used in the TV play Babs but it's much less exotic. Go on, don't leave us in suspense... OK actually there is a relevance for a theatre board. The theatre scenes (her auditions and Oh What a Lovely War) used the Broadway theatre in Catford that is virtually unused these days but has a working theatre organ that is quite marvellous. The Krays no so nice night club used the Catford Constituitional Club that is a bar behind the theatre that is pure shabby chic - it uses the old Catford Conservative club (CCC gettit) and they haven't bothered replastering etc. And the posher nightclubs used the good old Rivoli Ballroom that is up the road in Crofton Park. It's been used for hundreds of TV and films.
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Post by nick on Aug 10, 2018 14:51:43 GMT
Oh, I did wonder which theatre it was - it was way too huge for an end-of-pier. Lovely that it has a working organ... we all appreciate those. Love the nightclub stuff too. It's still working but is rarely played. They had a session last year where they got an organist in and put cameras in the loft so we could see all the instruments up above. So when he pressed "cymbal" we could see the cymbal being hit. They also operated the baffles above the stage so we could see the 'volume control' - closed = quiet, open = loud. Then he played along to an Elsa Lanchester silent film - she's a local girl apparently.
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4,038 posts
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Post by kathryn on Aug 13, 2018 10:07:44 GMT
And someone should have told Emily that it requires garlic and a crucifix, not a knife. But do we really want an Ann Dowd-less Handmaid's Tale? The character is vile, but she is soooo good at portraying her. I am intrigued to see what happens next season - how the hell is June going to get Hannah back from that position? She can't go back to the Waterford's! I have been wondering for a while why the Marthas haven't conspired to bring the commanders down - they're in charge of the food and the household, after all, and there's all manner of household cleaning agents that are poisonous. A bit of co-ordination and they could take the high command down on a single night, and probably a lot of the military too - I don't suppose the soldier-boys cook their own food, that's women's work.
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Post by Cardinal Pirelli on Aug 13, 2018 10:27:02 GMT
I think that, after the darkness of this season, the chinks of light are going to get bigger and the resistance will become more organised. Also we will probably get more of a sense of what happened with the setting up of Gilead and its first days, What happened in the colonies is currently very opaque, for example. Now we know what has been going on beneath the surface, it makes more sense of the surface. The filming in the snow was also absolutely beautifully done, I thought (I say this as someone who pines for Winter in the Summer!)
To watch it, I realised I had to stop thinking as me here and now and to to try and figure out how such a situation might affect me there and then, We are in a world which is teetering, which is one thing, but what if we were in a world that had already gone too far?
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2,706 posts
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Post by Cardinal Pirelli on Aug 13, 2018 10:34:40 GMT
Who said that Lydia was dead?
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1,903 posts
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Post by sf on Aug 13, 2018 18:19:35 GMT
Who said that Lydia was dead?
Ann Dowd has confirmed in an interview somewhere that Lydia will be back for the third season.
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