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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2017 23:25:18 GMT
I know this might be totally inappropriate
But we do cover many topics unrelated to theatre
And this subject affects us all
And does not seem to be leaving the headlines over the past 2 weeks
Would people be willing to share their thoughts and experiences on the NHS?
I will start it off by saying how upsetting and demoralising it is hearing negative comments on an almost daily basis and then having to go in to work with colleagues who are amazing and do a brilliant job in a system underfunded by the state and overused by patients only to see government shifting the blame about from person to person I honestly can't express how soul destroying and damaging the staff find it One day this week the TV was on in the waiting room which was full of patients with the news blaring out the latest woes on the failing system Whilst staff could hear it and were seeing patients
The latest attack from the "prime minister" on GPs is wholly misplaced
My main concern is that the government and people don't care anymore and they are prepared to accept poor clinical care as the norm
This is terrifying....
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2017 23:35:46 GMT
I meant to add
The BBC2 programme
Hospital
Offers a very good and true insight into the issues we all face
Rather than most medical shows which indulge or glamorise the work
This shows how it is
People fighting for beds and operation time
I would recommend it
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Jan 15, 2017 10:02:54 GMT
Posting of the highest quality of late from Parsley.
'The NHS will last as long as there are folk left with faith to fight for it.' Alas I fear for your concerns
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Post by Phantom of London on Jan 15, 2017 21:28:40 GMT
Think everyone knows where I stand politically, so I intend not to get wax lyrical.
We are seeing the basic health service in the U.S. being disbanded, everyone deserves a second chance to go on and achieve something and ensuring they have a good health helps to achieve this. The Americans pay 3 times what we do in the UK and they don't get an NHS. It breaks my heart when over there you see the money being wasted on expensive advertising and departments to catch people out who are underinsured, both unnecessary in the UK.
I heard a interesting caller to LBC the other day, who happened to be married to a practice manager and one thing the fellow said was that when the government say they are going to cut waste and red tape, you might as well go and bang your head against a wall, as you know to achieve this it will only get worse. I know parsley is a GP who I thought done a terrific O/P, would you find this is your experience?
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Jan 15, 2017 21:43:09 GMT
Post by The Matthew on Jan 15, 2017 21:43:09 GMT
I heard a interesting caller to LBC the other day, who happened to be married to a practice manager and one thing the fellow said was that when the government say they are going to cut waste and red tape, you might as well go and bang your head against a wall, as you know to achieve this it will only get worse. "We need to reduce red tape. We must set up a planning committee to discuss the documentation that will be required to determine the best way to move forward with a red-tape-cutting feasibility study."
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Jan 16, 2017 14:17:35 GMT
Post by Honoured Guest on Jan 16, 2017 14:17:35 GMT
My point is Very soon You may have to use your own money to pay for your healthcare The money you currently use for enjoyment Could you afford that? Shouldn't that have been posted in the "NHS" thread? It has nothing at all to do with Hamilton's London ticket pricing.
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Jan 16, 2017 14:22:18 GMT
Post by Dan213 on Jan 16, 2017 14:22:18 GMT
One thing has absolutely nothing to do with the other. Keep clutching at those straws though, it's amusing. You will all see soon When healthcare is privatised And people will have to pay cash or receive no treatment But you can keep your eyes closed Most have been doing so This is ridiculous The NHS Is not Going anywhere Also, this thread is about Hamilton, not the NHS
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Jan 16, 2017 14:26:33 GMT
daniel likes this
Post by Honoured Guest on Jan 16, 2017 14:26:33 GMT
You will all see soon When healthcare is privatised And people will have to pay cash or receive no treatment Because the future world will Run out of plastic So credit cards will no longer exist.
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Post by Michael on Jan 16, 2017 16:15:56 GMT
merged three posts from the Hamilton thread into this one.
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Jan 16, 2017 16:23:18 GMT
Post by Snciole on Jan 16, 2017 16:23:18 GMT
The issue is that there are a lot of people who don't use the NHS regularly, it falling to the wayside just isn't an issue. I am a member of the Labour Party adnt eh 2015 manifesto and door knocking was very much focused on the NHS. It became clear that one many didn't care and if they did they certainly didn't trust Miliband's party to fix it. I've had good experiences with them, my mum is under their constant care but it is clear that many chronic conditions are not being picked up by patient and the diagnosis services are stretched. The key to the NHS's survival is prevention but the support isn't their for people to notice issues that may become problems.
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Jan 16, 2017 16:30:19 GMT
Post by lynette on Jan 16, 2017 16:30:19 GMT
Maybe this free healthcare we all take for granted ( we do despite our praise for doctors and nurses ) will not last long now and will become a footnote in the history books which deal with post WWII Britain.
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Jan 16, 2017 18:25:29 GMT
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Post by Jan on Jan 16, 2017 18:25:29 GMT
The starting point of this particular round of problems came in 2004 when Blair gave GPs the option of opting out of weekend and out of hours coverage (mandatory up to then) for a pay cut of around 6%. Of course the overwhelming majority did just that putting pressure on A&E accordingly. UK GPs are the highest paid in Europe so you can't argue that that particular bit of the system is under-funded - pressure from May to have GPs provide a service at a time convenient to patients is welcome.
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Jan 16, 2017 18:41:14 GMT
Post by Honoured Guest on Jan 16, 2017 18:41:14 GMT
Yes and, prior to that, Tony Blair astonished the nation, his party, his advisors and civil servants by casually announcing on a Sunday morning tv chat with David Frost that he would increase the UK health spend per head to the European average. He duly did this, not by purchasing more healthcare, but by increasing the pay of all the health service workers, particularly the doctors. Around the same time, EU working time directives were reducing the hours which could be worked so that more doctors were needed to do the same work.
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Jan 16, 2017 19:30:13 GMT
Post by Phantom of London on Jan 16, 2017 19:30:13 GMT
The starting point of this particular round of problems came in 2004 when Blair gave GPs the option of opting out of weekend and out of hours coverage (mandatory up to then) for a pay cut of around 6%. Of course the overwhelming majority did just that putting pressure on A&E accordingly. UK GPs are the highest paid in Europe so you can't argue that that particular bit of the system is under-funded - pressure from May to have GPs provide a service at a time convenient to patients is welcome. As Dr Mark Evans head of the BMA (also used to do Television ring ins) stated that "do you really wanted to be treated by a G.P. that has managed to get an hour sleep the night before?" The same caller to LBC which I quoted above whose wife is a practice manager, also stated that with modern IT you can see when doctors are logged in, often they are logged in at 11pm to catch up with work.
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Jan 17, 2017 11:12:33 GMT
Post by kathryn on Jan 17, 2017 11:12:33 GMT
I once experimented with an American medical cover price comparison website, putting in the two most expensive zip codes in the country. Interestingly, the prices they returned were equal to what I pay for UK cover. Difference was, the NHS isn't capped for anything serious. For me, that settled the argument. NHS forever... but please, let's look properly at how it is run. The thing is the cover prices are only reasonable as long as you are reasonably healthy. As soon as you enter a higher risk group - or have a pre-existing condition - they shoot up. Because that's just how insurance works. Also you'll find that insurance policies only allow you to use certain healthcare providers, so there is considerable additional hassle involved if you need anything that is out-of-network. Not to mention how the profit requirement and the extra admin involved with the policy structure push up the actual cost of the healthcare in the first place. People complain about red tape and waste in the NHS, but that's nothing compared to the admin costs of billing patients and insurance companies. A private insurance system is just ineffeicient. Those inefficiencies are leveraged to create profit.
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Jan 17, 2017 12:54:46 GMT
Post by Snciole on Jan 17, 2017 12:54:46 GMT
Firstly apologies for my shocking spelling above. I need an NHS for my spelling and grammar Secondly I think if private was to become the norm here there would be a huge cost in guiding people through it. My job offered it as a perk but with my pre-exisiting conditions it just didn't seem worth the fuss and paperwork. People, even with added dentist and optician costs, know how the NHS works to move to any other system would be chaos.
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Post by d'James on Jan 17, 2017 14:08:17 GMT
Having spent the morning in A&E (not for me) it is such a fantastic system when it works well. We were lucky when we arrived and the waiting room wasn't too busy, as I left just now the waiting room was absolutely packed so I can imagine they'll struggle to meet their time targets for the rest of the day now. Such a shame because as I say, the treatment so far today for us has been outstanding and extremely thorough. Couldn't be better no matter how much you paid for it.
I have to say though, if a GP had given a prescription last week we wouldn't be in A&E now. Can't really blame them though, they do what they think is best at the time.
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Jan 17, 2017 14:36:00 GMT
Post by Honoured Guest on Jan 17, 2017 14:36:00 GMT
I have to say though, if a GP had given a prescription last week we wouldn't be in A&E now. Can't really blame them though, they do what they think is best at the time. Maybe they were in a hurry to get to see a theatre show?
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Jan 19, 2017 0:25:50 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2017 0:25:50 GMT
Please do all take time to watch
Episode 2
Of hospital on iPlayer
You are more likely to get a Hamilton ticket
Than a bed in ITU if you need it
Sobering
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Jan 19, 2017 0:32:44 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2017 0:32:44 GMT
Having spent the morning in A&E (not for me) it is such a fantastic system when it works well. We were lucky when we arrived and the waiting room wasn't too busy, as I left just now the waiting room was absolutely packed so I can imagine they'll struggle to meet their time targets for the rest of the day now. Such a shame because as I say, the treatment so far today for us has been outstanding and extremely thorough. Couldn't be better no matter how much you paid for it. I have to say though, if a GP had given a prescription last week we wouldn't be in A&E now. Can't really blame them though, they do what they think is best at the time. Lovely and pleased you had a good experience Can you say where you attended And what was the prescription you were given? Perhaps the illness was still developing And a second attendance was appropriate Treatment can't always be preemptive I am not wanting to argue Please don't take it the wrong way But I mean that the GP may well have been to right to not issue a script at that point in time I work in both settings and the prescribing rate from A&E is unsurprisingly very high and often unecessary The GP may have also issued a script if you had been able to see them again for a follow up It is better to see the original doctor for continuity Although again I know the many reasons why in reality this cannot often occur Were you unable to see your GP again or did they not advise you to call back if you didn't improve? Hope you are better now anyway! 😄
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Jan 19, 2017 0:38:07 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2017 0:38:07 GMT
Maybe this free healthcare we all take for granted ( we do despite our praise for doctors and nurses ) will not last long now and will become a footnote in the history books which deal with post WWII Britain. Best post in ages And Lynette You are 100% right When it all collapses People aren't going to like it one bit
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Post by d'James on Jan 19, 2017 1:08:19 GMT
Having spent the morning in A&E (not for me) it is such a fantastic system when it works well. We were lucky when we arrived and the waiting room wasn't too busy, as I left just now the waiting room was absolutely packed so I can imagine they'll struggle to meet their time targets for the rest of the day now. Such a shame because as I say, the treatment so far today for us has been outstanding and extremely thorough. Couldn't be better no matter how much you paid for it. I have to say though, if a GP had given a prescription last week we wouldn't be in A&E now. Can't really blame them though, they do what they think is best at the time. Lovely and pleased you had a good experience Can you say where you attended And what was the prescription you were given? Perhaps the illness was still developing And a second attendance was appropriate Treatment can't always be preemptive I am not wanting to argue Please don't take it the wrong way But I mean that the GP may well have been to right to not issue a script at that point in time I work in both settings and the prescribing rate from A&E is unsurprisingly very high and often unecessary The GP may have also issued a script if you had been able to see them again for a follow up It is better to see the original doctor for continuity Although again I know the many reasons why in reality this cannot often occur Were you unable to see your GP again or did they not advise you to call back if you didn't improve? Hope you are better now anyway! 😄 Nope, no arguments to be had here. As I said in the post, it wasn't me who was in need of treatment in A&E (although I could've maybe stated that more clearly). As such I'm not going to go into too much detail. We're North London by the way. The person is still in hospital and won't be out until Friday at the earliest. As I also said in my post, I guessed that the GP probably did what they thought was best at the time, however there is a nagging doubt that I have. If you ever want to see the same Doctor regularly, you have to book weeks in advance so when you're coughing up blood (luckily not quite as bad as it sounds in this instance), you take the first appointment with whichever Doctor you're given - then everything ran like clockwork from there (GP rang A&E so there was maybe a four minute wait once we'd checked in at reception at the hospital). Hopefully everything will get fed back to the GP's surgery so that they can review all the steps taken along the way, in case things were missed, so that they won't be again. We shall see. I'm not going to go into any more details as it's not me who is the ill one, so it is not my place to say anymore.
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Jan 19, 2017 1:19:13 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2017 1:19:13 GMT
Hope they recover well and can be discharged soon
As I said I work on both sides of the fence
And am not siding with anyone nor blaming
But 10 mins GP appts are ridiculous
When we see 30-35 patients a day
In A&E I spend 20-30 mins longer often with the exactly the same sort of patients with minor illness and can arrange x rays etc.
The amount of uncertainty in GP is amazing although often it's not a bad thing We have to rely a lot on probability and patient being sensible and coming back to us
People nowadays want an instant fix
And primary care isn't set up nor funded for that
Whilst most illness can't be sped up either!!
The main thing you/relative went back when things didn't improve/got worse
Also I 100% support and advise you discuss with your GP once the relevant person is better if you think or are worried things might have been overlooked I am always happy to have this discussion with patients and there may be nothing they would change or improve but of course there could be something and at least you will be reassured and better informed and those doubts can be addressed
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Jan 19, 2017 1:23:35 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2017 1:23:35 GMT
I have to say though, if a GP had given a prescription last week we wouldn't be in A&E now. Can't really blame them though, they do what they think is best at the time. Maybe they were in a hurry to get to see a theatre show? I actually think this is a really sh*tty And inappropriate comment Which derides and calls into question the high professional standards by which hard working GPs adhere to To imply that they would compromise patient care for something as comparably menial as theatre is laughable Perhaps your own job allows you to behave in a lax way Doctors generally take their work very seriously
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Jan 19, 2017 4:50:09 GMT
Post by showgirl on Jan 19, 2017 4:50:09 GMT
Happy to report a good, if slow experience with the NHS for my knee issue.
The only downside, as above, was how long it all took, and as my physiotherapist noted (I pay for my own regular treatment), the delay not only exacerbated the original problem but caused others; however, I hope that's all behind me now.
Overall it took 9 months from originally developing the injury to having the op to fix it, but a large chunk of that was because of course I waited 4 months to see if time and physio would resolve it, before going to my GP as it clearly not only wasn't getting better but worse. I did remark to one of the staff booking an appointment that as resources are scarce, you don't bother your GP with every little thing at the first instance; he however replied that some people did exactly that to reduce the eventual waiting time if they did need treatment!
After that it was just one wait after another, as understandably the NHS in some areas operates a triage system to avoid unnecessary referrals to hospital consultants, but I got there in the end and can only praise the treatment I received from start to finish. The actual op had to be done at a private hospital as the NHS waiting list was so long that it wasn't even published, but it was still covered by the NHS and I am very appreciative and grateful to have benefited in this way.
I'm not saying this only because of my own recent experience, but what a sobering thought to think that from the way things are going, the NHS could not only be created but might also cease to exist within a single lifetime.
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Jan 19, 2017 7:07:23 GMT
Post by Mr Snow on Jan 19, 2017 7:07:23 GMT
Please do all take time to watch Episode 2 Of hospital on iPlayer You are more likely to get a Hamilton ticket Than a bed in ITU if you need it
Sobering Its nonsense like this that means the general public tune out of most political discussion these days. Carry on with hyperbole, straw men, and 'post factual' shouting if you must. You are not helping move the debate forward at a time when interested parties can see we are at a crossroads. An aging poulation thanks to Health staff (typically as a Doctor your posts only reference your own hard working profession) delivering better but ever more expensive care and costs rising. Those, death and taxes are the future. And if you think this years bad, just wait. Now if the people within the NHS cared to lead the discussion sensibly, we might get somewhere. 3 Q's How do you propose in the light of the above challenges that free, at point of contact, care can be afforded in the future? Please reference your expenditure plans to a % of GDP, then it might mean something. As a Doctor what are your views on timewasters, no shows, drug courses not completed etc? What in your opinion are the most challenging issues facing the NHS in the next 3 years and next 10 years? Of course without knowing me you can dismiss me becasue of the politics you ascribe to me, or you can start a sensible debate. AS a Doctor people would like to hear some really well thought out arguments.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2017 9:28:19 GMT
You may recall There were a series of junior doctors strikes last year
Which were effectively ended by government and media manipulation and pressure
They were silenced
The doctors had good public support engaged with people and presented their arguments
The government just denied them and forced through what they wanted We have a health secretary with no medical training Laughable And who is happy to lie on a daily basis Doctors can be struck off for this sort of conduct But different rules apply for politicians
We run an NHS that we can afford
Or rather we run an NHS on the money provided by the government as opposed to the one people want or desire
This has always been the case
And it results in increasing rationing
The only realistic options are to start charging patients This is the only way things work these days Everything has a value and worth and cost
Or (preferably and) remove the NHS from out of the hands of the government
At the moment patients are unable to see the NHS as anything other than something serving their own individual needs and nothing is really practically done about this
Hence people think it's okay to attend A&E with a sore throat for less than a day Because they are only doing it once
Along with hundreds of others all having the same idea and thought process
I don't think you actually realise most staff have given up The system is in free fall and is a free for all Most people are taking from it what they want
The government choose to ignore or deflect and deny
Whilst patients don't take notice of warnings and continue to flock to seek healthcare
I am sorry to say but your post shows a level of naivety and ignorance
Constant pleas and headlines fall on deaf governmental ears
We live in a country which went to war with Iraq despite best public opinion to the contrary One million marched And this has been clearly admitted as a gross error of misjudgment and misinformation
People don't care about strikes and protests
Just because we are allowed to express things doesn't mean anyone gives a sh*t about what we are saying
Government can change the goalposts and boundaries as and when they want and lie at whim Without any real accountability
I think what you don't realise is that the current coverage of the NHS is a commentary on its last days in its current state
And most of the staff have given up trying or expecting change or improvement because they haven't the energy
I think you should watch Hospital And see the look on the face of the patient and team when planned major surgery involving 10 or more consultants is cancelled due to lack of ITU beds Surgery which has been planned months in advance And for which patients have been cancelled and moved from clinics to allow the team to all be available for this major undertaking And where this will occur all over again for the rescheduled operation once it goes ahead
You watch that and tell me that is acceptable for a modern developed country
By far the most frequent sorts of things I see in A&E are chronic problems which have been to their GP but they are waiting in pain for physio (up to 6 weeks) or for a scan (up to 3 months) or outpatient appointment (up to 6 months) or surgery (up to 18 months) Sometimes the patients are shopping around often their condition has flared and they need advice or reassurance What am I supposed to say to these patients? I am sorry that's the system you have to wait, miss work and live in pain
But There is no point having arguments and debates when no one plans to take any action
The chasm between the government and NHS workers is so large nothing can be done
Most of my colleagues have stopped debating and accepted things as they come
The public are happy to watch a drama from a safe viewing distance Try and educate and you get abuse or a complaint "I didn't get what I wanted so I feel upset and distressed" But ask them to take action Live healthily Lose weight Stop smoking Stop to consider the wider effects of procreation
And you get screamed at for infringing human rights Censored and told "I pay my taxes now sort out my problem"
Patients are actively encouraged to fill forms with feedback like they have just been to Waitrose and are rating their shop Complaints are encouraged but really no one takes them seriously because we can blame the system and increased demand
How can you succeed in this sort of climate?
This doesn't make it any easier on a daily basis when patients are left waiting for clinic appointments in pain or another community service has been taken away
We just apologise offer a sympathetic smile and refer to cuts and rationing
Secretly we are all hoping we don't fall ill anytime soon and pretend that we are immune to having to use these services
Once in a while a colleague will fall ill
And it might be their turn to face the system
Or they might have taken out health cover (most colleagues I know have private cover and this should be a telling sign) and can breathe a sigh of relief as they can have their treatment at their convenience
Most recently a good colleague in her 30s has gone through breast cancer treatment
She knows the limitations of the NHS as she works in it There would have been a delay in her diagnosis in her first outpatient appointment and subsequent operation and chemotherapy
Privately she had an outpatient review and surgery within 5 days from referral via her GP
This is what the NHS tries to pretend to be able to do but simply cannot cope with demand
Many hospitals are so overwhelmed with 2 week cancer referrals (these are supposed to be seen within 2 weeks from referral to exclude a possible serious diagnosis) that they can just temporarily stop accepting referrals in extreme pressure
What's the point of having targets and aims if they are just rendered meaningless and are regularly breeched and exceeded
So what is my conclusion?
We already have the poorest cancer survival rates of almost any modern western country
Perhaps we accept that the level of healthcare will just decline and tolerate it
This will have to be balanced off against constant headlines that someone slept on a chair or floor waiting for treatment But if that becomes the norm and they have no other choice then people will have to just get used to it
The government don't even think there is a problem Most people have no or little respect for politicians I wouldn't take advice on what to wear to bed from them let alone how to run a healthcare system and I don't know why people tolerate it In many ways we are such a meek and subservient nation The current excuse for a PM Actually engaged in a dialogue comparing and defending the NHS against human disasters Does she have a brain or any shame?
Perhaps we will all come round to the same conclusion if they ignore it for long enough
There was an interesting article recently which commented that humanitarian response teams are run with the sort of effort efficiency and organisation which the NHS can only dream about
I have increasingly contemplated leaving my work over the last 2 years because I am working in a system I don't trust anymore
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Jan 19, 2017 10:08:17 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2017 10:08:17 GMT
I wish I hit the nail on the head as often as you do Parsley.
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Jan 19, 2017 10:08:38 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2017 10:08:38 GMT
I wish I hit the nail on the head as often as you do Parsley. Are you being sarcastic? It feels like watching a relative slowly suffocating to death In a glass box Whilst being forced to watch tied to a chair
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Jan 19, 2017 10:38:29 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2017 10:38:29 GMT
I wish I hit the nail on the head as often as you do Parsley. Are you being sarcastic? It feels like watching a relative slowly suffocating to death In a glass box Whilst being forced to watch tied to a chair Genuinely not, I promise! Harsh reality of the situation. I've many friends who are Doctors/Nurses, all virtually concurring on the eventual extinction of the system we know now.
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