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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2017 15:56:54 GMT
@caiaphas I think new Shane Corcoran is’t Tom but someone else. Tom was in the original cast ( I laughed as with a dozen Carneys in stage the actor whose name is Carney plays Corcoran), and the new cast Shane is someone different. Loved your post! It’s been a week since I recisited but I am still under its spell. Just as last time, one of the most powerful experiences and emotions. Yes, I thought that was funny too! It was the old cast I caught just before they finished, so it was definitely Tom Glynn-Carney I saw. I am going again in a few weeks when the part will be played by Laurie Davidson. He is a newcomer here but we recently saw him playing a journalist in a TV drama called Diana and I. How did he compare? Incidentally, if you are a fan of Tom Glynn-Carney, he is playing Tony Armstrong in a new(ish) BBC drama called The Last Post. I think it's one of the best things we've had on TV here in a while now... I have missed all Jez Butterworth's plays on stage now but I have ordered all the scripts and (almost) read them all !
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Post by zak97 on Oct 18, 2017 18:45:11 GMT
Such a good play, and the first time I’ve seen decent story telling since Hangmen. I think Hangmen just beat this, for me, but a great production and cast.
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Post by Stasia on Oct 19, 2017 4:09:04 GMT
@caiaphas I think new Shane Corcoran is’t Tom but someone else. Tom was in the original cast ( I laughed as with a dozen Carneys in stage the actor whose name is Carney plays Corcoran), and the new cast Shane is someone different. Loved your post! It’s been a week since I recisited but I am still under its spell. Just as last time, one of the most powerful experiences and emotions. Yes, I thought that was funny too! It was the old cast I caught just before they finished, so it was definitely Tom Glynn-Carney I saw. I am going again in a few weeks when the part will be played by Laurie Davidson. He is a newcomer here but we recently saw him playing a journalist in a TV drama called Diana and I. How did he compare? Incidentally, if you are a fan of Tom Glynn-Carney, he is playing Tony Armstrong in a new(ish) BBC drama called The Last Post. I think it's one of the best things we've had on TV here in a while now... I have missed all Jez Butterworth's plays on stage now but I have ordered all the scripts and (almost) read them all ! Understood! I somehow presumed you saw it last week with the new cast, who all I foind equally as brilliant. I’m now rerrading The Ferryman and struggling I never seen any Butterworth plays before, just as you. Do the scripts “work”? Re Laurie Davidson: he also got the looks and because of the combination of his height and young face the “he’s just a silly boy”-thought strikes even harder. He reminded me of my younger brother who’s also tall. But I can’t say I preferred him over Tom or vice versa. I loved each and everyone I saw on stage. Especially the baby. The last one was picture perfect baby😍 And I never had a thing for babies Thanks for the tip! The Last Post is now in my phone notes to read about and to look for!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2017 5:58:13 GMT
Yes, I thought that was funny too! It was the old cast I caught just before they finished, so it was definitely Tom Glynn-Carney I saw. I am going again in a few weeks when the part will be played by Laurie Davidson. He is a newcomer here but we recently saw him playing a journalist in a TV drama called Diana and I. How did he compare? Incidentally, if you are a fan of Tom Glynn-Carney, he is playing Tony Armstrong in a new(ish) BBC drama called The Last Post. I think it's one of the best things we've had on TV here in a while now... I have missed all Jez Butterworth's plays on stage now but I have ordered all the scripts and (almost) read them all ! Understood! I somehow presumed you saw it last week with the new cast, who all I foind equally as brilliant. I’m now rerrading The Ferryman and struggling I never seen any Butterworth plays before, just as you. Do the scripts “work”?Re Laurie Davidson: he also got the looks and because of the combination of his height and young face the “he’s just a silly boy”-thought strikes even harder. He reminded me of my younger brother who’s also tall. But I can’t say I preferred him over Tom or vice versa. I loved each and everyone I saw on stage. Especially the baby. The last one was picture perfect baby😍 And I never had a thing for babies Thanks for the tip! The Last Post is now in my phone notes to read about and to look for! Now that’s a really interesting question because, of course, most scripts need life breathing into them to make them come “alive” from the printed word on the page. The writing is very good so yes, they do “work” but only up to a point. They’re no substitute for seeing them in performance, a bit like eating chocolate with the wrapper on(!), but I am really enjoying them, and enjoying imagining how they were staged. I’m Googling images of the original productions too and reading old reviews, many of which weren’t over-complimentary... There’s one exception- The River. Didn’t like this at all. I would think it was quite a different beast on stage. There’s also a mystery... every so often the word ‘Beat’ is written as a stage direction in brackets. Written several times in each script. And I have absolutely no idea what it means or indicates. Google has not been my friend either... I would love to hear others’ comments on any of Jez Butterworth’s plays, either in performance or the writing, and if anyone can solve the ‘mystery’ I’d be happy to buy them an ice-cream in the interval of his next play. Because I’ll be there like a shot this time!
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Post by bordeaux on Oct 19, 2017 6:29:47 GMT
Understood! I somehow presumed you saw it last week with the new cast, who all I foind equally as brilliant. I’m now rerrading The Ferryman and struggling I never seen any Butterworth plays before, just as you. Do the scripts “work”?Re Laurie Davidson: he also got the looks and because of the combination of his height and young face the “he’s just a silly boy”-thought strikes even harder. He reminded me of my younger brother who’s also tall. But I can’t say I preferred him over Tom or vice versa. I loved each and everyone I saw on stage. Especially the baby. The last one was picture perfect baby😍 And I never had a thing for babies Thanks for the tip! The Last Post is now in my phone notes to read about and to look for! Now that’s a really interesting question because, of course, most scripts need life breathing into them to make them come “alive” from the printed word on the page. The writing is very good so yes, they do “work” but only up to a point. They’re no substitute for seeing them in performance, a bit like eating chocolate with the wrapper on(!), but I am really enjoying them, and enjoying imagining how they were staged. I’m Googling images of the original productions too and reading old reviews, many of which weren’t over-complimentary... There’s one exception- The River. Didn’t like this at all. I would think it was quite a different beast on stage. There’s also a mystery... every so often the word ‘Beat’ is written as a stage direction in brackets. Written several times in each script. And I have absolutely no idea what it means or indicates. Google has not been my friend either... I would love to hear others’ comments on any of Jez Butterworth’s plays, either in performance or the writing, and if anyone can solve the ‘mystery’ I’d be happy to buy them an ice-cream in the interval of his next play. Because I’ll be there like a shot this time! 'Beat' just indicates that the actor must make the briefest of pauses before continuing. It may have originated with David Mamet, who uses it a lot, I think. It's his version of Pinter's 'Pause'.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2017 6:45:51 GMT
What's your preferred flavour, bordeaux ?! (I was thinking it must be something along those lines...) Many thanks!
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Post by bordeaux on Oct 19, 2017 7:03:05 GMT
What's your preferred flavour, bordeaux ?! (I was thinking it must be something along those lines...) Many thanks! I find a bit of fudge or salted caramel hard to resist. Problem is it might be five years or more before the next one...I can see why he's not as prolific as James Graham or Richard Bean, but I can't help wishing he wrote more plays. And I doubt whether this ancient English TV series which is coming up will really satisfy those of us who loved The Ferryman and Jerusalem.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2017 10:36:56 GMT
Yes- 'beat' and 'Pause' are used fairly interchangeably by writers, and each has a particular personal interpretation of what they mean. As a rule I think mostly 'Beat' is considered a shorter one (like a short 'rest'in written music) and 'Pause' is something more substantial (so maybe a bar-rest in music).
But such things are relative to writer and director and who knows what else!
I will at some point write some thoughts on Ferryman. I'm probably going to do a blog post incorporating it into what happens when you really dislike the 'in thing' in theatre.
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Post by mallardo on Oct 19, 2017 11:01:22 GMT
You'll find "beat" or "a beat" in dialogue scenes in virtually every screenplay ever written. David Mamet does not get credit for it. I've never seen "pause" in a screenplay - perhaps only in plays?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2017 13:03:28 GMT
Following on from some of your responses, I found this. It would seem that it’s much more common in screenplays. I’ve never seen it in playscripts before, although I think Jez Butterworth maybe uses the term as he’s been largely working in films. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beat_(filmmaking)
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2017 9:51:54 GMT
I've started a post on this about 3 times...
I wanted to like it. I love a long play (sometimes) I really really love a kind of slow-burn-nothing-really-happens-but-it-does-type-play. I'm also a quarter Norn-Irish (my drunk quarter mainly) And I'm a contemporary history nerd, and naturally The Troubles fall into that area.
So on one had proof posative that on paper a play can tick all the boxes and in practice tick none. And while I'm still resentful of the hours I spent watching this in principle, it's still been a fascinating excercise in 'but why didn't it work?'
If I'm being really ungenerous, the short answer is: I was bored. I looked at my watch 25 minutes in and I clock-watched from there on out. That's obviously a far too reductive answer though. And I wasn't bored constantly- there were moments/scenes that I really enjoyed and moments where I thought 'Oh no this is taking off now, I'm into it' but sadly it would slip again into boredom and frustration for me. Again, I love a play/film where it seems not much happens, but stuff is.
I think for me, if I'm honest a lot of the performances didn't 'click' which is where a lot of people's love of it seems to lie as well. Maybe I saw an off night, maybe some of them just don't work in the roles. Some were brilliant but enough just didn't land for me- Quinn I'm sorry to say fell really flat for me, and I hate to make judgement on the new cast but knowing Paddy C's work elsewhere I think he might have just lifted it enough for me. Conversely as someone who would normally rather scratch my own eyes out than watch kids on stage, I thought the kids were uniformly great in this.
My problem overall I think was that it felt like it was at once trying to do too much as a play and also not getting anywhere. The last hour (particularly the scene with the young lads talking about the hunger strikes etc) and the lead up to the ending is overall great, and at best brilliant. I just didn't think it needed the 2.5 hours it took to get there. I enjoyed some of the family drama, but again felt it was too unweildy when it was also tied up with the politics etc. I really love the idea of telling stories about The Troubles through a family lens, but then I think it tagged on too much other stuff for the sake of 'action' (actually leaving it all a bit abstract would have worked better for me).
Things I outright hated: the IRA 'heavies' all a bit (to borrow from someone else) 'B Movie gangster' again could be the acting not the writing here...but I didn't like it. I really also objected to the 'Local simpleton' character. Yes 100% have an English character to show that tension between neighbour and enemy...but I didn't like that depiction at all. I'm torn on the 'in love with my brother in law' storyline, I think though I just wanted to see that play on it's own.
Overall the play just left me a bit cold and a bit bored. There's lot in it to unpick and think about, but it really didn't hold me in the room. I think another writer/team would have been ripped apart/made to re-write elements of it, and I get frustrated at that, as a writer. But I appreciate Butterworth's work, and I'd go and see another play of his to figure out if it's his style I don't get on with or simply this play.
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Post by tommygnosis on Oct 25, 2017 9:15:24 GMT
I have seen the play twice now, once with the original cast and saw the new cast on their first weekend. For me this play is one of the finest pieces of theatre I have ever seen. It is powerful and thought provoking, and it felt very realistic for the time in the province.
I had what could only be described as a hysterically emotional experience watching it for the first time, given that I am Northern Irish and grew up in the province in the 80s. My family are from Twinbrook, I was baptised in the church that is mentioned in the play, my grandparents are buried in the same cemetery as Bobby Sands. My Grandparents actually went to pay respects to Sands when his body was brought home to be waked, my aunt was one of the mourners at the funeral. I never expected to find Twinbrook mentioned anywhere in the West End.
I have met people like Muldoon and let me tell you Stuart Graham plays it so well, and yes people like Muldoon would be surrounded by yes men who would be willing to do anything without question.
"The Troubles" are now seen as history but for people like me who grew up at the epicentre of it, The Ferryman is not a representation of "history" it is watching what we lived through brought to live in a way that is unexpected yet still hits you like a hammer through your soul (as Will Houston described it to us at SD).
I have already booked for the final night and no doubt will have a couple more trips to the show before then.
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Post by couldileaveyou on Oct 25, 2017 9:20:12 GMT
How does the new cast compare to the original?
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Post by tommygnosis on Oct 25, 2017 9:27:53 GMT
How does the new cast compare to the original? I really liked the new cast on the whole, I definitely preferred Will Houston over Paddy - he had a harder edge than Paddy and it felt more real that he would have had the history he does in the play. Sarah Greene was exceptional as Caitlin. On the whole the play is as good if not better - we were worried it would lose something with the new cast but this was definitely not the case.
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Post by jadnoop on Oct 25, 2017 11:13:38 GMT
How does the new cast compare to the original? I really liked the new cast on the whole, I definitely preferred Will Newton over Paddy - he had a harder edge than Paddy and it felt more real that he would have had the history he does in the play. Sarah Greene was exceptional as Caitlin. On the whole the play is as good if not better - we were worried it would lose something with the new cast but this was definitely not the case. Really glad to hear that Sarah Greene is exceptional; for me Laura Donnelly was the standout from the original cast, and given how important the Caitlin-Quinn relationship is to the play, it's great to hear that the new cast is better. I really loved Paddy Considine; for me his ability to be both charming and menacing in things like, say, Shane Meadows' wonderful Dead Mans Shoes made him great as Quinn Carney so it'll be interesting to see someone playing the role more explicitly hard edged. Out of interest, how's Will Houston's accent? I haven't the best ear for accents, but Paddy's seemed to be a little shakey, sometimes sounding a little american.
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Post by tommygnosis on Oct 25, 2017 12:24:58 GMT
I really liked the new cast on the whole, I definitely preferred Will Newton over Paddy - he had a harder edge than Paddy and it felt more real that he would have had the history he does in the play. Sarah Greene was exceptional as Caitlin. On the whole the play is as good if not better - we were worried it would lose something with the new cast but this was definitely not the case. Really glad to hear that Sarah Greene is exceptional; for me Laura Donnelly was the standout from the original cast, and given how important the Caitlin-Quinn relationship is to the play, it's great to hear that the new cast is better. I really loved Paddy Considine; for me his ability to be both charming and menacing in things like, say, Shane Meadows' wonderful Dead Mans Shoes made him great as Quinn Carney so it'll be interesting to see someone playing the role more explicitly hard edged. Out of interest, how's Will Houston's accent? I haven't the best ear for accents, but Paddy's seemed to be a little shakey, sometimes sounding a little american. There is no issue with Will's accent at all - he is from N Ireland originally, as I have to say that Paddy's accent was definitely wobbly. Laurie Davidson's (Shane) accent is also much better than the previous guy.
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Post by peggs on Oct 25, 2017 13:03:31 GMT
Really interesting to read your thoughts tommygnosis
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Post by tommygnosis on Oct 26, 2017 8:45:42 GMT
Really interesting to read your thoughts tommygnosis Thanks peggs
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Post by daniel on Oct 27, 2017 0:44:19 GMT
Booking extended to 19 May, now on DMT+ presale. Dress slips appear to not be on sale - additional day seats perhaps?
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Post by Jon on Oct 27, 2017 1:00:45 GMT
Booking extended to 19 May, now on DMT+ presale. Dress slips appear to not be on sale - additional day seats perhaps? I assume they'll keep it going until September next year if sales are still good.
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Post by neonsun on Oct 28, 2017 23:46:20 GMT
I know what you're aiming for, but it's far more likely that the knowledge of accessibility in theatres is simply not getting out to the people who would benefit from it. Not forgetting, of course, that people who would benefit from it and have asked for it from other theatres in the past have met with obstinate indifference and a complete lack of interest from those who should be helping them and thus may not even want to go to the theatre anymore.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2017 22:49:25 GMT
Return visit for me today which is a first: I’ve never seen the same production of a play. Ever.
Ths is a stonkingly good piece of work, in my opinion, and I couldn’t wait to see it a second time. There are layers and layers here to be discovered and explored. It’s interesting what you take in the first time that you almost miss the second... (Do we concentrate more??) Aunt Pat crying when Aunt Maggie first sings; seeing an old lady and a baby on stage, with nobody else present, both alone in their own worlds, worlds apart... But there are always new things you notice. I loved it.
If I’m being really honest, the cast I saw before the changeover had the edge. The original Uncle Pat had that lyrical quality before which suited his fascination with stories; Tom Kettle used to deliver his lines more deliberately, and the youngest child was more of ‘a natural’. But I’m nitpicking.
If you haven’t seen it yet, it’s not too late!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2017 14:01:37 GMT
I finally caught this (thanks to my first venture into TodayTix) and thought it was a beautiful, intricate piece of storytelling, really well acted and staged - but for me let down by the final scene, which just descended into over-wrought melodrama (marks the first time I've really understood the phrase 'jumping the shark').
I loved the sense of a normal happy, bickering family gradually revealing its dark spots, I really liked the context of the Troubles slowing drawing in and why people would both support and fear the IRA, I was even prepared to buy the idea of an elderly woman who could be catatonic one moment and then stunningly lucid the next. The dialogue is beautiful and even though it's long it never stopped being engaging. I also loved the cousins talking at the end and the fights and conflicts and macho posturing and playing with fire. It really didn't need that climactic over the top ending. But perhaps just me?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2017 15:35:42 GMT
I finally caught this (thanks to my first venture into TodayTix) and thought it was a beautiful, intricate piece of storytelling, really well acted and staged - but for me let down by the final scene, which just descended into over-wrought melodrama (marks the first time I've really understood the phrase 'jumping the shark'). I loved the sense of a normal happy, bickering family gradually revealing its dark spots, I really liked the context of the Troubles slowing drawing in and why people would both support and fear the IRA, I was even prepared to buy the idea of an elderly woman who could be catatonic one moment and then stunningly lucid the next. The dialogue is beautiful and even though it's long it never stopped being engaging. I also loved the cousins talking at the end and the fights and conflicts and macho posturing and playing with fire. It really didn't need that climactic over the top ending. But perhaps just me? I saw it twice and the first time I was just so completely drawn in by the skilful storytelling and stagecraft that I didn't mind about the ending. I watched it a second time (I don't usually do this as I can't afford to) and saw more weaknesses in the play (while still admiring its incredible strengths), the ending being one of them. Perhaps next year, when the play ends its run and there is no risk of a discussion spoiling it for others we can chew the fat on this a bit more.
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Post by Stephen on Nov 22, 2017 17:07:09 GMT
I am seeing this on Monday and I’m very excited given what I’ve heard.
Also thrilled that local Scottish actress Maureen Nolan is in the new cast. She’ll no doubt be grand.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2017 17:39:57 GMT
I am seeing this on Monday and I’m very excited given what I’ve heard. Also thrilled that local Scottish actress Maureen Nolan is in the new cast. She’ll no doubt be grand. I think you might mean Maureen Beattie who plays Aunt Maggie Faraway. She is excellent. Maureen Nolan, on the other hand, might just belt out I’m In The Mood For Dancin’ and spoil it!
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Post by Stephen on Nov 22, 2017 18:31:10 GMT
I am seeing this on Monday and I’m very excited given what I’ve heard. Also thrilled that local Scottish actress Maureen Nolan is in the new cast. She’ll no doubt be grand. I think you might mean Maureen Beattie who plays Aunt Maggie Faraway. She is excellent. Maureen Nolan, on the other hand, might just belt out I’m In The Mood For Dancin’ and spoil it! Haha! This is too good! Yes, I meant Beattie. How could I get that wrong!
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Post by Stephen on Nov 28, 2017 0:36:22 GMT
Well, I thought that it was brilliant! Just a great play that everyone should see!
This is definitely one not to spoil but can say that it's well acted, directed and a fabulous evening out at the Gielgud!
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Post by couldileaveyou on Nov 28, 2017 10:28:56 GMT
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Post by orchidman on Nov 28, 2017 11:00:51 GMT
Front row £12 for tonight on the Delfont Mackintosh website. Wonder if they are putting those online now as day seats or if it's a one off.
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