46 posts
|
Post by palace on May 5, 2017 17:05:38 GMT
By secondary ticketing do you mean ticket sellers like See Tickets and Ticketmaster? They don't sell tickets for this show. If they did, the booking fee isn't that high. Get Me In, Stubhub, Viagogo and the like could sell them but their prices would be really high and it wold be the elite who would end up paying a lot more than being a member of the NT. Therefore, the system works very well for the members and the NT but it doesn't for the non member and your argument fails. BTW Your site is wonderful and seatplan.com/ is also very good.
|
|
3,482 posts
|
Post by showgirl on May 5, 2017 17:07:46 GMT
I'm confused now: does anyone please know for sure whether the NT does hold back some £15 seats for public booking? Because if so, I'd have tried again this morning, having had a disastrous experience on Priority Members' booking day when the website froze so by the time I reached the booking stage, all the £15 seats appeared to have gone and I had to pay more or miss out.
|
|
367 posts
|
Follies
May 5, 2017 17:16:09 GMT
via mobile
Post by Ade on May 5, 2017 17:16:09 GMT
I'm confused now: does anyone please know for sure whether the NT does hold back some £15 seats for public booking? Because if so, I'd have tried again this morning, having had a disastrous experience on Priority Members' booking day when the website froze so by the time I reached the booking stage, all the £15 seats appeared to have gone and I had to pay more or miss out. I couldn't say for sure but I know that when I booked AiA I tried on the Priority date and there was nothing I wanted in the front £15 seats so I waited until the Advance on sale date and got ones I wanted. They could of course have been returns or the result of rejected card payments or the like.
|
|
3,482 posts
|
Post by showgirl on May 5, 2017 17:27:52 GMT
Thank you both, Ade and theatremonkey.com. I think the lesson for me is that if it happens again - which I fervently hope it doesn't - I will try again when the next level of booking opens. There I was, feeling sorry for those booking today who would find that some productions were already sold out (e.g. Mosquitoes, which I was unable to book), only to find that in some instances they have fared better than I did - and despite forking out the £80 for the privilege, too!
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 5, 2017 17:51:55 GMT
Woo, I got tickets to Follies. Back row of the balcony, but central, and I don't think there's a bad seat in that theatre. I'm really really excited!
|
|
725 posts
|
Post by Latecomer on May 5, 2017 17:59:00 GMT
I'm confused now: does anyone please know for sure whether the NT does hold back some £15 seats for public booking? Because if so, I'd have tried again this morning, having had a disastrous experience on Priority Members' booking day when the website froze so by the time I reached the booking stage, all the £15 seats appeared to have gone and I had to pay more or miss out. I tried again this morning and got 2 row C seats for £15 each, so yes, they did hold back some seats. Also checked another day and there was one available on that date. I was lucky with a low queue number...I quite like the random allocation as it does take the stress out of booking....you are either lucky or not!
|
|
120 posts
|
Post by aine on May 5, 2017 18:40:46 GMT
I can't believe I missed getting decently priced tickets for this - I was flying home and couldn't get the wifi to work at the airport 😪 I'll either have to hope for returned tickets or pay for whatever's left😕
I just checked and all the dates say 'sold out' 😒
|
|
834 posts
|
Follies
May 5, 2017 19:24:58 GMT
via mobile
Post by Steffi on May 5, 2017 19:24:58 GMT
I can't believe I missed getting decently priced tickets for this - I was flying home and couldn't get the wifi to work at the airport 😪 I'll either have to hope for returned tickets or pay for whatever's left😕 I just checked and all the dates say 'sold out' 😒 I just had a look and most dates showed as "limited availability" to me apart from previews.
|
|
2,706 posts
|
Post by Cardinal Pirelli on May 5, 2017 19:26:24 GMT
What does annoy me are those who pay for membership at high levels and who then try to hoover up cheaper tickets to compensate. They are cheap so that they can be afforded by those who might not be able to afford them, not to offset paying for membership.
I'd be happier if theatres only put such discounted tickets on general sale, not to members.
|
|
578 posts
|
Post by michalnowicki on May 5, 2017 19:50:37 GMT
And I'm just happy I can get a ticket. At any price. Living in Scotland, I treat going to London to see a show as a privilege, not a right. I think it would be lovely if everyone was able to get a £15 ticket to every show and for any seat, but it's not a world we live in.
|
|
46 posts
|
Post by palace on May 5, 2017 20:14:59 GMT
By secondary ticketing do you mean ticket sellers like See Tickets and Ticketmaster? They don't sell tickets for this show. If they did, the booking fee isn't that high. Get Me In, Stubhub, Viagogo and the like could sell them but their prices would be really high and it wold be the elite who would end up paying a lot more than being a member of the NT. Therefore, the system works very well for the members and the NT but it doesn't for the non member and your argument fails. No, "secondary ticketing" means Get Me In and those outlets. See and Ticketmaster are primary ticketing outlets - official agents who may or may not have allocations. A little tip for newcomers to the board is to Google a term if you are not sure of it, it can help before replying . So it is exactly my point. Those who can afford it can - and do - use them and access the best seats that way. ^ That's what you said. If members did not pay a fee to the NT, they could pay secondary outlets and the plebs could still book through See Tickets, Ticketmaster or the theatre box office and pay a reasonable booking fee. The point is; it would only be a question of booking as quickly as possible when tickets became available. When it came to buying tickets, everyone would be equal. Eg. When I booked tickets for Gypsy it was a question of - First come, first served. Now to see something at the NT, I'm relegated to booking after the elite have had first choice. The membership fee is a nice little earner for the NT and in return it gives preferential treatment to its members. That's not a policy I agree with for The NT - a subsidised organisation and a charity. What an interesting production this must have been.
|
|
5,317 posts
|
Follies
May 5, 2017 20:25:33 GMT
via mobile
Post by mrbarnaby on May 5, 2017 20:25:33 GMT
Oh yes nice one. Why not push for them to give free tickets to those that haven't paid out for a membership to get priority tickets? And a free programme too perhaps? What does annoy me are those who pay for membership at high levels and who then try to hoover up cheaper tickets to compensate. They are cheap so that they can be afforded by those who might not be able to afford them, not to offset paying for membership. I'd be happier if theatres only put such discounted tickets on general sale, not to members.
|
|
120 posts
|
Post by aine on May 5, 2017 20:29:31 GMT
I can't believe I missed getting decently priced tickets for this - I was flying home and couldn't get the wifi to work at the airport 😪 I'll either have to hope for returned tickets or pay for whatever's left😕 I just checked and all the dates say 'sold out' 😒 I just had a look and most dates showed as "limited availability" to me apart from previews. I think it's the way my account is set up, I have one of those student accounts or whatever that get you the £5 tickets and £10 'mate rates' tickets
|
|
3,935 posts
|
Post by Dawnstar on May 5, 2017 20:31:27 GMT
What does annoy me are those who pay for membership at high levels and who then try to hoover up cheaper tickets to compensate. They are cheap so that they can be afforded by those who might not be able to afford them, not to offset paying for membership. That certainly happens at the Royal Opera House, and is arguably more of an issue there as there are far fewer performances per production & much higher top prices than the National. Most of the perfomances of Follies, when I looked earlier this evening, still had a few tickets available at the £41-£65 region, which if you're desparate to see something is considerably more do-able than the £200+ that is often all that's available for the ROH a few hours after booking has opened.
|
|
725 posts
|
Post by Latecomer on May 5, 2017 21:15:01 GMT
I think the point here may be that all the cheap tickets were NOT hoovered up by priority members, they held back some cheap tickets for advance booking and public booking. Plus there are always rush tickets the week before (that are very cheap!) and day tickets. And if you are young and poor there is a very good scheme for cheap tickets! Plus if the National gets a cheap ticket returned they always put it back on the website for sale! The National get a good balance I think!
|
|
|
Post by Honoured Guest on May 5, 2017 21:20:33 GMT
I think the point here may be that all the cheap tickets were NOT hoovered up by priority members, they held back some cheap tickets for advance booking and public booking. Plus there are always rush tickets the week before (that are very cheap!) and day tickets. And if you are young and poor there is a very good scheme for cheap tickets! Plus if the National gets a cheap ticket returned they always put it back on the website for sale! The National get a good balance I think! Yes, that is a point but the original gripe was that all the prime seats (i.e. the central stalls block) were sold before general booking. One compromise might be to hold back the whole house, or the left hand side, for general sale for certain performances?
|
|
279 posts
|
Post by fossil on May 5, 2017 22:25:19 GMT
For those who missed out on good and/or affordable tickets, the season leaflet does mention for Follies that "Additional performances to be announced"
|
|
46 posts
|
Post by palace on May 5, 2017 23:46:27 GMT
No. What i said is that in any system, some will use what they have to get ahead of everyone else. As that is the case, the least worst option is that some good comes of it.In this case, the cash that would go to a tout instead at least stays in the theatre for their benefit. That helps us all, not just one tout. And, you deleted a point about a fair chance at Gypsy tickets. Actually, ATG card members got priority. Yes, yes market forces and all that and you were saying that the NT system was the best. BIB Best for who? In your opinion. Not for me and other non members. How does something that benefit the theatre help non members? The ticket prices might be slightly lower but it's not much use if the best seats are sold by the time the general public get their chance to purchase seats and the NT already receives subsidies. I booked for Gypsy and Funny Girl well after the priority nonsense was over. But I've had issues with ATG in the past and eventually managed to get some free tickets from them. ATG seem to be looking for any way no matter how dodgy to make a fast buck. So it's no surprise that they sell priority seats. However, other ticket sellers allow priority booking by simply registering interest online and then emailing when tickets are available and they don't charge more for the tickets. At least the NT haven't gone down the premium seat route. Some theatres have now introduced two levels into this category. Best seats are now at least 3rd best. Still, priority booking at the NT is not quite appropriate for a charity receiving subsidies and although you may not agree, that's my opinion.
|
|
46 posts
|
Post by palace on May 5, 2017 23:51:34 GMT
I think the point here may be that all the cheap tickets were NOT hoovered up by priority members, they held back some cheap tickets for advance booking and public booking. Plus there are always rush tickets the week before (that are very cheap!) and day tickets. And if you are young and poor there is a very good scheme for cheap tickets! Plus if the National gets a cheap ticket returned they always put it back on the website for sale! The National get a good balance I think! Yes, that is a point but the original gripe was that all the prime seats (i.e. the central stalls block) were sold before general booking. One compromise might be to hold back the whole house, or the left hand side, for general sale for certain performances? What an excellent idea.
|
|
18,873 posts
|
Post by BurlyBeaR on May 6, 2017 5:37:48 GMT
Well what a huge eff up. The NT website sucks, their box office staff are apparently incompetent and nothing they said about booking a group with disabled access seats for one member of the party turned out to be true. So my friends aren't going and I've got a sh*tty single seat not on the aisle.
|
|
|
Follies
May 6, 2017 8:30:01 GMT
via mobile
Post by Deleted on May 6, 2017 8:30:01 GMT
The other problem with the National is shows run in rep. So its not like 3 full months of performances have sold out. You have a limited run of a limited run of something with mass appeal. If this was 8 shows per week for 3 months there would still be plenty of availability
|
|
|
Follies
May 6, 2017 9:13:49 GMT
via mobile
Post by Deleted on May 6, 2017 9:13:49 GMT
i wish for their big productions they would just do normal performances and not in rep. Sure you cant always tell what will be popular but some you can. Part of the reason i rarely go to the National
|
|
|
Post by Honoured Guest on May 6, 2017 10:11:38 GMT
Remember, when the NT opened, all seats were a single price, and unreserved... as all were considered equal. Was that the case in all three theatres, or just in the Cottesloe? Not all seats ever offered an equal experience, but I suppose you mean that all ticketholders had an equal chance of sitting in their place of choice?
|
|
46 posts
|
Post by palace on May 6, 2017 12:26:55 GMT
Yes, yes market forces and all that and you were saying that the NT system was the best. I didn't say it was the best. I said that in a situation, you go for a least worst option. BIB Best for who? In your opinion. Not for me and other non members. How does something that benefit the theatre help non members? The ticket prices might be slightly lower but it's not much use if the best seats are sold by the time the general public get their chance to purchase seats and the NT already receives subsidies. Best in that if the tickets were available on totally "free access" then they would have been purchased in vast numbers by touts, and put on Getmein etc. Then, those who can afford £600 memberships would buy them, the cash going to the tout, not the theatre. This way, tickets are highly traceable and went direct to people who would use them and the National get the cash. For you and everyone else, it keeps the prices lower and lets the National continue to stage this type of work to a level higher than most commercial producers can afford. So, to answer the question, simply, you get to see something - maybe not from exactly where you want to, but you still at least get to see it. I'd also note that my own observation is that though the members grab tickets in the early period, by the second release of tickets, there is plenty. I booked for Gypsy and Funny Girl well after the priority nonsense was over. Fair enough, but just observing that they do use "Priority Booking" as a selling tool. And yes, ATG are rapacious, to say the least. However, other ticket sellers allow priority booking by simply registering interest online and then emailing when tickets are available and they don't charge more for the tickets. All West End chains have priority schemes except RU Theatres (who may yet do so) and Nimax, as do most major venues like Donmar, Almeida etc. Hamilton used the DMT+ scheme, for example. At least the NT haven't gone down the premium seat route. Some theatres have now introduced two levels into this category. Best seats are now at least 3rd best. Still Yes the NT have. Central seats in both the Olivier and Lyttelton have been "premium" since 2015, and are for "Follies" too. Indeed the commercial sector have gone in for "super-premium," "premium" and "sub-premium" - started with Mormon a few years ago. But it doesn't mean they actually sell the seats at those prices, just that they try for it and dynamically price down or up as demand allows. The NT does dynamically price too, as it happens. Costs of staging theatre are now exceptionally high, and it is one tool for keeping other prices lower. I don't like it either, but again, it's a fact of commercial theatre. Still, priority booking at the NT is not quite appropriate for a charity receiving subsidies and although you may not agree, that's my opinion. They have had a membership scheme offering priority booking for decades. I've been a member for over 30 years myself. The only real problem I had was when they split it into tiers, the more you pay, the earlier you can book. I stuck with the lowest tier and use the cash saved to buy more expensive tickets if I need to. There's nothing wrong with tax payers who choose to support the arts taking an extra chance to show that support. The trouble has come, as their new boss observed, with the situation of more demand than tickets available for some productions. That leads us right back to the current debate we are having here about distribution. For the moment, making sure touts don't get the seats is priority, but yes, there is room to look at the system. The big issue being that the pricing currently puts cheapest seats at the front and back, but second cheapest only at the back. That's odd, but a function of the auditorium layout and also need to make up the shortfall they have in funding by maximising income. Remember, when the NT opened, all seats were a single price, and unreserved... as all were considered equal. Which reminds me: don't forget that Orwell was an Etonian, and "Animal Farm" tends to be taught in schools because it seems a "Lefty" book fitting with some teaching unions' political viewpoint. In fact, if you read more Orwell, he doesn't really like the "masses" at all... bit of a con-trick, that one, though in keeping with the spirit of the times in which he wrote. I'm not going to go through and answer all of your post. I'm just glad to have discussed my experience with the NT and to have discussed policies from other theatres/groups. I haven't seen any premium seats on sale at the NT but it's somewhere I've never been before. I did read something about the policy for Hamilton to stop touts getting their hands on tickets. It seems to be wrong to have National Theatre which is a charity and in receipt of subsidies sitting here on the South Bank masquerading as the country's National Theatre when it really appears seems to be a nice little members' club with tickets available to them before Joe Public. That's not very inclusive is it? It just smacks of elitism. All theatre goers are equal, but some theatre goers are more equal than others .... The poster Honoured Guest has come up with a very good suggestion to stop all the best seats being snapped up by members. Let's just hope that this production of Follies is worth all the fuss. I'll be the one at the back.
|
|
3,935 posts
|
Post by Dawnstar on May 6, 2017 17:41:41 GMT
The other problem with the National is shows run in rep. So its not like 3 full months of performances have sold out. You have a limited run of a limited run of something with mass appeal. If this was 8 shows per week for 3 months there would still be plenty of availability I didn't even realise it would be in rep until I tried to book yesterday. I thought it was running right through from the end of August to the beginning of November & planned to book some time in the first half of October, only to discover no performances were taking place then, leaving me to scrabble around for any other date that would definintely not clash with potential theatre or holiday dates. I'd been on the NT website the previous evening to make sure I knew where to click etc. on the day but there's no mention on the Follies webspage that it is going to be in rep. Is everyone supposed to know this? I'm a frequent theatregoer but have only been to the National twice before in my life, as I don't want to see most of what they do, so had no idea they did rep rather than continous runs.
|
|
83 posts
|
Post by brenth on May 6, 2017 17:58:59 GMT
i just went onto the site and got two tickets for October ...i tried yesterday morning at 8:30 and got to the front of the queue but browser threw me out! Ive wanted to see this for 30 years and I am very excited (tragic old show queen) I was at the last night of the last London production and Eartha Kitt had to sing 'I'm still here twice' ...If they had dropped a bomb on the Shaftsbury that night every Gay man in London would have gone to Jesus!
|
|
|
Post by Honoured Guest on May 6, 2017 18:58:31 GMT
We have had two NT shows running in Cardiff this week - Curious Incident and This Country. Which is a way of making the NT more genuinely national. But it does grate that they produce all their shows outside the NT bunker on a commercial basis, to subsidise the members' club on the South Bank.
|
|
4,361 posts
|
Post by shady23 on May 6, 2017 19:24:12 GMT
I'll be the one at the back. I'll be the one without a membership of any kind with a great £15 seat at the front stalls got on public sale, although you continue to refuse to believe such seats were available.
|
|
|
Post by crabtree on May 6, 2017 22:15:11 GMT
Am I right in thinking that there are some of the ladies' parts still to be cast or finalised....?
|
|
|
Post by Mattie on May 6, 2017 22:34:05 GMT
If the National became a members' club for popular productions (as the Donmar has been for years) then I would have a real problem with it. I would also have a problem if all the £15 tickets were snapped up by members. Given that they are partly to encourage new theatregoers, it seems wrong that members have a much higher chance of securing £15 tickets. (Incidentally, the Nick Hytner memoir is really interesting on his attempts to change the pricing structure and encourage new audiences - I highly recommend reading it to those of you interested in this topic!)
However, as a non-member, I was delighted that the booking process for Follies was so much easier than booking for other productions recently has been, and there seemed plenty of options available when I booked. I am therefore not yet concerned that the National has become an exclusive club. Mosquitoes, on the other hand, was effectively only open to members and sold out very quickly. But it's difficult to see what else the National could have done given that it is so popular and there are such a small number of seats.
I do think more could be done by subsidised theatres to make their productions available outside London. It always surprises me that NT Live shows are not available to purchase / download after their very limited cinema broadcasts. Is it really that impossible to negotiate with the cast and creative teams? I think that there is a duty on subsidised theatres to do more to enable all members of the public (who indirectly pay for them) to have easier access to their productions and I would like to see more focus on this. But perhaps somebody better informed can explain why it really is so difficult to make shows available.
|
|