214 posts
|
Post by paulbrownsey on Oct 5, 2023 19:44:38 GMT
Yes, was thinking of exactly that moment. And Cam M’s horror captured on film for all time. He deeserves nothing less. People’s attitudes of “how DARE you ruin my evening out” are… Reading a lot of the reactions on here is actually quite scary. What did he sing in BTTF? “My myopia is my utopia.” Well, your utopia is on fire, babes. I think people get enraged by them because they know, deep down, that JSO are absolutely right. “But my night out! My night OUT!!” We’re screwed. If you're quoting BTTF, I think "...you're children are gonna love it..." would be more appropriate. JSO is a childish attempt at disruptive anarchy by people with no purpose in life - they're either silly little student kids or retired old has-beens, all of whom think soft protests will make a difference. They look decidly amateur compared to more organised groups. This is while the oil companies tolerate them, because they pose little or no threat other than to sway public opinion against their cause. JSO are the biggest threat to green goals and ambitions - rich-backer funded anarchy. It's Brexit all over again. "I think people get enraged by them because they know, deep down, that JSO are absolutely right." That reminds me of a Home Office psychiatrist many years ago who said that the more gay people insist they're gay, that shows they're really heterosexual deep down.
|
|
214 posts
|
Post by paulbrownsey on Oct 5, 2023 19:52:56 GMT
It would be interesting to see research on whether exposure to these sorts of protests makes people *less* sympathetic to moves to combat climate and environmental crises. If government regulations are going to make your life more difficult and/or more expensive and then you get prevented from getting to a hospital appointment or have a night out ruined by JSO protests, might there not be a tendency to think, "Oh, to hell with the whole business" and, with that, a tendency to support Sunak's watering down of relevant measures? Yes, research could be intertesting.
|
|
|
Post by ThereWillBeSun on Oct 5, 2023 20:23:30 GMT
This is just terrible! Surely they had to have purchased a ticket to get in? What about security checks at the theatre? The powder can easily to concealed on the body, in a phone case, a make up bag etc. The ushers/security are likely checking for alchol, knives etc so I wouldn't blame them. I'd like to know where they were sat as they must have approached the stage and got up onto it. Not like just hopping a barrier as they did at the snooker. A lot of these protesters are rich kids so I guess they afford a ticket pretty easily. Stalls B - according to a audience member on X. They tried intervening. I just think these morons are rich kids who are entitled and like the sound of their own voice. Also - cannot believe how audience members were berating FOH staff. As if it was their fault?!?! Would also like to say how EPIC stage management are too in their handling of this unexpected ambush.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2023 20:26:39 GMT
What would have happened if someone from the audience had decided to drag one of the eco zealots off the stage or pulled their hand off the barricade. With today's society they would probably be done for assault.
When the protesters tried to block the highways before I think Burning Man festival in the US the footage of the sheriffs driving through their baracade is how you should handle this lot.
|
|
|
Post by punxsutawney on Oct 5, 2023 20:33:54 GMT
What would have happened if someone from the audience had decided to drag one of the eco zealots off the stage or pulled their hand off the barricade. With today's society they would probably be done for assault. When the protesters tried to block the highways before I think Burning Man festival in the US the footage of the sheriffs driving through their baracade is how you should handle this lot. They'd probably be done for assault because it would be assault. Just because the protest is one you disagree with doesn't give you a right to take matters into your hands, you are not security and you are not police and you should not be getting physical with them.
|
|
|
Post by ThereWillBeSun on Oct 5, 2023 20:34:10 GMT
^ that's what I was thinking.
In the footage; the cast leave the stage and the stage management give them a wide bearth.
I wonder if West End shows are briefed on this scenario.
With security checks, I think they are not thorough enough; I don't mind them rummaging through / taking their time - reassures me if anything, especially in the kind of world we live in now.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2023 20:46:36 GMT
What would have happened if someone from the audience had decided to drag one of the eco zealots off the stage or pulled their hand off the barricade. With today's society they would probably be done for assault. When the protesters tried to block the highways before I think Burning Man festival in the US the footage of the sheriffs driving through their baracade is how you should handle this lot. They'd probably be done for assault because it would be assault. Just because the protest is one you disagree with doesn't give you a right to take matters into your hands, you are not security and you are not police and you should not be getting physical with them. I agree it is assault but at say a concert say someone jumps on stage and makes beeline for a star and their security takes them to the ground. The star's security may be twice the size of any have a go person too. A security qualification doesn't give to the same rights as a police officer. I understand pulling someone's hand off would be painful but if they have been stupid enough to glue it on then why should they have rights. Its like when the police escort those EDL knuckle draggers when they march through a BAME area for example.
|
|
|
Post by sukhavati on Oct 6, 2023 8:04:00 GMT
The civil rights movement in America relied on peaceful protests to start the process of change. Granted some police departments reacted in a violent fashion, but it took time. JSO would do better to put their money where their collective mouths are, get rid of their autos, take public transport or ride bikes. They could be encouraging others to do the same, or promoting alternative environmentally friendly methods of locomotion (not that I trust electric cars - the batteries are a huge problem waiting to happen once it's time to replace them). Rather than infringing on ordinary people they've got to find a way to make it cool to encourage average citizens to cut back on petroleum products. No one is talking about plastics, another petroleum product with an afterlife of hundreds of years before biodegrading. Not a lot of discussion about fast fashion, one of the biggest polluting industries on the planet. But the biggest polluters affecting the ozone layer are China and India. Doubt it will be possible to convince either country to change their ways when they're trying to keep up with Western standards of living. I doubt the Indian government or Chinese government would put up with JSO's antics.
|
|
1,159 posts
|
Post by theatrefan62 on Oct 6, 2023 8:18:49 GMT
Every time they pull crap like this, they just help out the next politician who wants to further restrict protests. Front page means nothing when what people are talking about is that they're a bunch of idiots who need to be stopped from doing this sort of thing. Absolutely this. It’s so tone deaf and inept it feels like a false flag operation. Completely idiotic from JSO. To be honest, every time I've seen a rep for JSO be interviewed they don't seem the brightest. They also (instead of answering the questions directly to them) just repeat the same stats over and over, its like theyve been brainwashed and mustn't stray from the script. We all know the climate crisis. Their behaviour won't change climate change deniers minds, and they just alienate people who do believe it.
|
|
1,292 posts
|
Post by mkb on Oct 6, 2023 8:38:15 GMT
The civil rights movement in America relied on peaceful protests to start the process of change. Granted some police departments reacted in a violent fashion, but it took time. JSO would do better to put their money where their collective mouths are, get rid of their autos, take public transport or ride bikes. They could be encouraging others to do the same, or promoting alternative environmentally friendly methods of locomotion (not that I trust electric cars - the batteries are a huge problem waiting to happen once it's time to replace them). Rather than infringing on ordinary people they've got to find a way to make it cool to encourage average citizens to cut back on petroleum products. No one is talking about plastics, another petroleum product with an afterlife of hundreds of years before biodegrading. Not a lot of discussion about fast fashion, one of the biggest polluting industries on the planet. But the biggest polluters affecting the ozone layer are China and India. Doubt it will be possible to convince either country to change their ways when they're trying to keep up with Western standards of living. I doubt the Indian government or Chinese government would put up with JSO's antics. Encouraging or mandating changed behaviour could provide instant wins. Recycling in the UK is a half-hearted voluntary arrangement that swathes of the population ignore. And the amount of energy wasted drives me mad. Shops with open fridges, buildings with doors and windows open while they're being heated/cooled. It should be made a civil offence to knowingly waste energy.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2023 9:41:11 GMT
Well said Sukhavati, but I doubt the JCO mob would have the minds, patience and gravitas of the likes of MLK, Harry Belafonte, Jessie Jackson etc.
|
|
|
Post by juicy_but_terribly_drab on Oct 6, 2023 10:49:22 GMT
I'm not saying I consider Just Stop Oil's methods the most effective or best way to go about achieving their aims, but for all the people referencing MLK Jr, I think this quote from him should always be on our minds:
"First, I must confess that over the last few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season."
If you aren't happy with Just Stop Oil's protests but you agree with them in theory, maybe stop directing your anger at them and start directing it at those in power who are actually far more deserving of that anger. If you think they should be going about bringing change in another way, why not do it yourself instead of doing the easy thing and ctnically judging them on an internet theatre forum.
It also feels like a lot of people when they invoke MLK Jr or the Suffragettes as examples of good protest forget that they were met with all kinds of resistance and similar claims from liberals who agreed with their cause but disagreed with their methods etc. and not all branches of either cause we're peaceful.
|
|
|
Post by Negamuse on Oct 6, 2023 10:50:21 GMT
The civil rights movement in America relied on peaceful protests to start the process of change. There was some of both, as there should be. In the UK we had Cable Street. Same with LGBT rights, Stonewall was a riot.
I profoundly disagree with stage invasion, it breaks the fundamental contract of live theatre and is distressing and possibly dangerous for the performers. But the nature of protest is to do things that people profoundly disagree with, it's the point of the thing. Especially when with the climate the stakes are so incredibly high.
I sympathise with the people who had their day out ruined but there are refunds and Les Mis will be there tomorrow. We need to remember, there's no musical theatre on a dead planet.
|
|
579 posts
|
Post by christya on Oct 6, 2023 11:05:31 GMT
Everything I've heard about MLK and the protests organised says that they were protests that made sense. The bus boycott, because of specific issues with buses. Sit-ins, in places where black people were normally not welcome. And of course marches, which have been common to almost every protest movement.
As for the suffragettes - they were dangerous terrorists who quite possibly delayed women getting the right to vote, and are portrayed far too kindly by history.
JSO haven't the common sense of MLK and his movement, and don't deserve to be spoken of in the same sentence. I absolutely will not respond to their ridiculous, self-indulgent protests in any way other than to want them stopped.
|
|
3,809 posts
|
Post by anthony40 on Oct 6, 2023 11:12:35 GMT
|
|
1,248 posts
|
Post by londonmzfitz on Oct 6, 2023 11:21:19 GMT
Screw that! Supplying incriminating evidence of their actions to the Police? In the week of the C4 Partygate documentary where people got fines of £10,000 while the (bloody hell, can't even find a word that doesn't contain expletives) did the WTF (Wine Time Fridays)? Screw that!
|
|
2,802 posts
|
Post by ceebee on Oct 6, 2023 11:23:41 GMT
Ages of 18, 19, 22, 23... says it all. Pontificating and preaching to the masses with next-to-nothing in terms of life experience.
|
|
6,359 posts
|
Post by Jon on Oct 6, 2023 11:25:48 GMT
I wonder if the four individuals will be banned from every theatre in London?
|
|
1,248 posts
|
Post by londonmzfitz on Oct 6, 2023 12:24:14 GMT
Note - Young people are allowed to have an opinion / protest. Middle aged people are allowed to have an opinion / protest. Retired old has-beens are allowed to have an opinion / protest. People named Tarquin or Jemima are allowed to have an opinion / protest.
In summary. This thread has collectively called the JSO protestors Losers Pathetic attention seekers Imbeciles YouTube pranksters self-serving scrotes absolute bunch of arseholes / need to be dragged out by any means necessary attention-seeking tossers / a bunch of disruptive hi-vis middle class fannies / spineless either silly little student kids or retired old has-beens flaccid little Tarquin and Jemima sorts, or retired pensioners from the home counties selfish brats
and further said JSO is a doomsday cult
I don't agree with their tactics, I really don't. They seem to be passionate about the cause and that's something I can get behind, that passion, that cause.
|
|
|
Post by oxfordsimon on Oct 6, 2023 12:58:32 GMT
But they alienate more than they persuade. Which means they are failing.
Passion is fine. But it has to be channelled correctly for it to be effective.
They aren't noble. They are actively bad for the cause they seek to champion.
|
|
876 posts
|
Post by BVM on Oct 6, 2023 13:02:54 GMT
Note - Young people are allowed to have an opinion / protest. Middle aged people are allowed to have an opinion / protest. Retired old has-beens are allowed to have an opinion / protest. People named Tarquin or Jemima are allowed to have an opinion / protest. In summary. This thread has collectively called the JSO protestors Losers Pathetic attention seekers Imbeciles YouTube pranksters self-serving scrotes absolute bunch of arseholes / need to be dragged out by any means necessary attention-seeking tossers / a bunch of disruptive hi-vis middle class fannies / spineless either silly little student kids or retired old has-beens flaccid little Tarquin and Jemima sorts, or retired pensioners from the home counties selfish brats and further said JSO is a doomsday cult I don't agree with their tactics, I really don't. They seem to be passionate about the cause and that's something I can get behind, that passion, that cause. Well said! I've found it slightly surprising/sad how one sided the thread on here has been. Not saying am a fan of JSO (am not especially and I do agree in certain media interviews, certain members do come across as rather unlikeable no doubt) - however, EVERYONE has a right to protest. And whether or not I am pro or anti what happened at Les Mis, am still not quite sure. I AM sure that it's far more nuanced than many of the positions on here. And interestingly theatre social media has given a much more mixed response. Would also say (and kinda gone into devil's advocate mode) that even if you disagree with them the conversation here has kinda said they think their tactics are wrong but then it's edged at what "right" tactics might look like. Which is good. So there are 4 pages of discussion with the environment as the back drop that wouldn't have happened otherwise. Also - come on - starting a protest at Les Mis at the point they sing "will you join in our crusade" - there is something in that! (Not saying I support it. Obviously I see if you are a one off visitor to the show as a special treat - that that is c**p). But really, I do find it nuanced. And as ever, we all don't need to have an extreme response! Though, yeah, I get it, it's 2023. Also, if they are doing a bad job, who exactly IS doing a great job of meaningful protest to alert this dreadful government that the planet is dying?
|
|
876 posts
|
Post by BVM on Oct 6, 2023 13:06:45 GMT
But they alienate more than they persuade. Which means they are failing. Passion is fine. But it has to be channelled correctly for it to be effective. They aren't noble. They are actively bad for the cause they seek to champion. Dunno if they are. We are (still) talking about it. Like for all the musicals - no such thing as bad publicity? Also they aren't actively bad for the cause - at worst they are neutral. There are very very very few people who would think "well I kinda care about the environment, but actually I hate JSO, so yeah thinking about it, I don't give a **** about the environment." The worst they are for the cause is ineffectual. As perhaps they are not doing a great job at bringing people on the fence along with the cause. But they don't turn people with the cause against it. IMHO. Apologies - not specifically directed at you Simon - my views on all the similar posts!
|
|
2,802 posts
|
Post by ceebee on Oct 6, 2023 13:16:22 GMT
Maybe the thread feels one-sided because most rational people think JSO are a bunch of antagonistic self-serving disruptive a-holes.
|
|
1,012 posts
|
Post by David J on Oct 6, 2023 13:18:59 GMT
The sad thing is a lot of youths today, with high inflation and the job ladder becoming increasingly challenging, are more inclined to make a movement their own identity when they have nothing meaningful in life to do.
Same with a lot of movements nowadays
So they will be willing to do stupid stunts and whenever any reasonable voice tells them a counterpoint they put their fingers in their ears and shout the ist words to shut out anything that shatters not only their world view but who they’ve built themselves up to be
|
|
994 posts
|
Post by nash16 on Oct 6, 2023 13:21:23 GMT
Atypical of our current, disgusting government. Just wanting to check you’re not equating what I wrote with them? Before I involve Admins… If you're quoting BTTF, I think "...you're children are gonna love it..." would be more appropriate. JSO is a childish attempt at disruptive anarchy by people with no purpose in life - they're either silly little student kids or retired old has-beens, all of whom think soft protests will make a difference. They look decidly amateur compared to more organised groups. This is while the oil companies tolerate them, because they pose little or no threat other than to sway public opinion against their cause. JSO are the biggest threat to green goals and ambitions - rich-backer funded anarchy. It's Brexit all over again. "I think people get enraged by them because they know, deep down, that JSO are absolutely right." That reminds me of a Home Office psychiatrist many years ago who said that the more gay people insist they're gay, that shows they're really heterosexual deep down.
|
|
|
Post by sph on Oct 6, 2023 13:23:14 GMT
I think that while yes, you could say Stonewall was a riot, it was an in-the-moment reaction in a time and place specific to its cause. Jumping on a musical theatre stage to protest fossil fuels is incongruous really, an attempt to grab headlines and I honestly don't think anyone is more "aware" of climate change than they were a few days ago as a result.
Also, remember that in the current climate, especially in a crowded theatre in a capital city, there is always the potential threat of a terrorist attack. These people turned out to be relatively peaceful protestors, but in those first few moments when they charged the stage, it must have been a pretty scary moment for all those in the building. I mean they could have been attackers with knives or worse for all anyone knew.
|
|
876 posts
|
Post by BVM on Oct 6, 2023 13:28:00 GMT
Not saying JSO are good people, am really not. Many are awful! They are also not clones. Individuals have different motivations and intentions.
But they have a right to do it. And this "stunt" HAS got people talking.
And as the head missionary woman says in Guys and Dolls when it's revealed that the lads are only in the mission due to gambling - "you see, it just goes to show how good can come out of evil." Maybe there is a dash of that.
There are also a lot of protestors in history who we romanticise now who were absolutely hated at the time.
I think it's nuanced.
|
|
6,359 posts
|
Post by Jon on Oct 6, 2023 13:30:10 GMT
Absolutely this. It’s so tone deaf and inept it feels like a false flag operation. Completely idiotic from JSO. To be honest, every time I've seen a rep for JSO be interviewed they don't seem the brightest. They also (instead of answering the questions directly to them) just repeat the same stats over and over, its like theyve been brainwashed and mustn't stray from the script. We all know the climate crisis. Their behaviour won't change climate change deniers minds, and they just alienate people who do believe it. JSO always comes across on TV really badly.
|
|
876 posts
|
Post by BVM on Oct 6, 2023 13:31:05 GMT
I think that while yes, you could say Stonewall was a riot, it was an in-the-moment reaction in a time and place specific to its cause. Jumping on a musical theatre stage to protest fossil fuels is incongruous really, an attempt to grab headlines and I honestly don't think anyone is more "aware" of climate change than they were a few days ago as a result. Also, remember that in the current climate, especially in a crowded theatre in a capital city, there is always the potential threat of a terrorist attack. These people turned out to be relatively peaceful protestors, but in those first few moments when they charged the stage, it must have been a pretty scary moment for all those in the building. I mean they could have been attackers with knives or worse for all anyone knew. I do agree it could have been and that's very unpleasant. (That said I follow all the Les Mis cast on social media - one of my fave shows of all time - and most of their reactions on there suggest it wasn't thankfully).
|
|
|
Post by oxfordsimon on Oct 6, 2023 14:22:11 GMT
Not saying JSO are good people, am really not. Many are awful! They are also not clones. Individuals have different motivations and intentions. But they have a right to do it. And this "stunt" HAS got people talking. And as the head missionary woman says in Guys and Dolls when it's revealed that the lads are only in the mission due to gambling - "you see, it just goes to show how good can come out of evil." Maybe there is a dash of that. There are also a lot of protestors in history who we romanticise now who were absolutely hated at the time. I think it's nuanced. But it hasn't got people talking about the issue. All we are discussing is their tactics. That isn't advancing the cause they claim to represent.
|
|