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Post by oxfordsimon on Jun 10, 2023 23:02:33 GMT
I wonder whether Poly Findlay was the right choice for this. She hasn't any experience with musicals as far as I am aware. She has plenty of experience but has never helmed a musical before.
Assassins is far from being a traditional musical so I can see how she might have been viewed as a good fit. But given how it does reference a range of MT styles, perhaps someone more immersed in the genre might have brought it together more effectively. Balancing the tone of the piece does appear to be an issue for a number of commenters.
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Post by highonahill on Jun 10, 2023 23:29:59 GMT
Either the critic from the Sussex Express is incredibly dim and completely failed to understand what Sondheim and Weidman were trying to do, or this production is less clear than any poor student production of Assassins ever staged in the last 30 years. I have just read the review. I think the critic is 50/50 right/wrong. I like the show and my biggest criticism of this production is of the tone they have chosen. If I wasn't familiar with Assassins, I might think along the same lines. www.sussexexpress.co.uk/arts-and-culture/theatre-and-stage/review-assassins-in-chichester-a-ghastly-misjudgement-4177612This reviewer is usually spot on. I was really surprised by how he has slated the themes of this production. Reading between the lines, I believe he has been somewhat swayed by his own personal experiences; he alludes to this in his review... "Of course, your response to it all will depend how close you have come to violent crime, how much you realise that nothing is ever the same again, not least for the survivors." For the record, I saw it tonight and thought the treatment of the piece innovative and highly topical. The satirical comedy only serves to highlight how absurd the individual assassins' views are, I thought in particular how the staging of Unworthy of Your Love was cleverly commenting on obsessional fandom (for me drawing a parallel with some of the obsessive staged poring seen in the theatre fandom. Nick Holder was the standout for me, bringing alive the desperation, hopelessness and resignation felt by Byck about the world around him. Genuinely moved by his performance. I understood the concept of splitting the Balladeer's role out with the forma of a political news/game show, but I struggled with the blend of voices and with the pitch of a role originally written for a male voice being sung by a female voice - for me, it didn't always work.
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Post by juicy_but_terribly_drab on Jun 10, 2023 23:44:57 GMT
This reviewer is usually spot on. I was really surprised by how he has slated the themes of this production. Reading between the lines, I believe he has been somewhat swayed by his own personal experiences; he alludes to this in his review... "Of course, your response to it all will depend how close you have come to violent crime, how much you realise that nothing is ever the same again, not least for the survivors." For the record, I saw it tonight and thought the treatment of the piece innovative and highly topical. The satirical comedy only serves to highlight how absurd the individual assassins' views are, I thought in particular how the staging of Unworthy of Your Love was cleverly commenting on obsessional fandom (for me drawing a parallel with some of the obsessive staged poring seen in the theatre fandom. Nick Holder was the standout for me, bringing alive the desperation, hopelessness and resignation felt by Byck about the world around him. Genuinely moved by his performance. I understood the concept of splitting the Balladeer's role out with the forma of a political news/game show, but I struggled with the blend of voices and with the pitch of a role originally written for a male voice being sung by a female voice - for me, it didn't always work. I found the line you quoted particularly interesting considering Something Just Broke - a song I actually have mixed feelings about being in the show, but I digress - seems to address the exact experience he seemingly may feel the show is insensitive to.
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Post by jr on Jun 11, 2023 5:55:04 GMT
Really interesting that two people mention Nick Holder as the best in the cast. For me it was by far the worst of all. His speeches were too slow and without punch.
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Post by meister on Jun 11, 2023 7:01:24 GMT
Will be interesting to see what other critics make of it and if their views influence the box office. It is only on for another 2 weeks and has not sold brilliantly. Wonder if they will even break even.
Could we get a poll up?
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Post by theatrefan62 on Jun 11, 2023 7:20:52 GMT
Will be interesting to see what other critics make of it and if their views influence the box office. It is only on for another 2 weeks and has not sold brilliantly. Wonder if they will even break even. Could we get a poll up? Yeah I think it's the first Chichester show, certainly musical, that had a discount offer on.
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Post by emsworthian on Jun 11, 2023 8:03:27 GMT
I felt a sense of triumph attending the performance yesterday afternoon as it was the third time I had bought a ticket for "Assassins" and the first time I have made it: first time was for an amateur production, which was cancelled without explanation, then for the Chichester 2020 season.
It appeared a slightly younger than usual Chichester audience and the cheerleaders beforehand whooped them up. A section of the audience was laughing at everything. I've got quite a dark sense of humour but I was shocked when the audience laughed when "Squeaky" Fromme said how she was devoted to Charlie (Manson) "until he went and stabbed Sharon Tate." I'm old enough to remember the slaughter of pregnant Sharon Tate and her companions and how vile it was. I supposed if you hype people up enough then the unacceptable become acceptable. That was the one time when I did start to sympathise with the Sussex Express reviewer.
On the other hand, I did laugh when Charles Guiteau was dancing up to the gallows.
I'm with jr on Nick Holder; I thought his lengthy monologues lacked impact and during the one near the end I became quite bored.
I thought it was an interesting musical and I would like to see a production by a director who takes a different approach, but not in the too near future.
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Post by highonahill on Jun 11, 2023 8:34:15 GMT
I felt a sense of triumph attending the performance yesterday afternoon as it was the third time I had bought a ticket for "Assassins" and the first time I have made it: first time was for an amateur production, which was cancelled without explanation, then for the Chichester 2020 season. It appeared a slightly younger than usual Chichester audience and the cheerleaders beforehand whooped them up. A section of the audience was laughing at everything. I've got quite a dark sense of humour but I was shocked when the audience laughed when "Squeaky" Fromme said how she was devoted to Charlie (Manson) "until he went and stabbed Sharon Tate." I'm old enough to remember the slaughter of pregnant Sharon Tate and her companions and how vile it was. I supposed if you hype people up enough then the unacceptable become acceptable. That was the one time when I did start to sympathise with the Sussex Express reviewer. On the other hand, I did laugh when Charles Guiteau was dancing up to the gallows. I'm with jr on Nick Holder; I thought his lengthy monologues lacked impact and during the one near the end I became quite bored. I thought it was an interesting musical and I would like to see a production by a director who takes a different approach, but not in the too near future. Third time lucky! I guess this thread sums up the allure of theatre - we all take away something unique from the experience - which means agreement on what is good or bad is not always necessary 'everybody's got the right to be different'... ❤️🎭
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Post by adamkinsey on Jun 11, 2023 9:48:52 GMT
I will freely admit Assassins is my third favourite Sondheim show after Follies and Sweeney. I've seen a fair number of productions, including a fab one at the Landor (a much missed tiny pub venue in London) and the most recent pro one at the Watermill (only thing I disliked there was making the Balladeer female as vocally it doesn't quite fit).
I enjoyed this Chichester version although I don't like the split of the Balladeer and there are definitely pacing issues (I reckon it's a good ten minutes off where it should be). Some of the performances were excellent although I maintain that while Peter Forbes opens the show wonderfully as Proprietor he's also wasted by having so little to do after. I think the director has also emphasized comedy at times when it could be darker.
I think the Sussex reviewer has totally missed the mark in the point of the show. Perhaps he should have done a bit more reading ahead or opted out of going.
A 3.5 stars from me.
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Post by theatrefan62 on Jun 11, 2023 9:54:55 GMT
As a side point it's interesting in this instance the reviewers experience is clouding his judgement etc
Yet other times people's personal experience is expected to be respected and understood with trigger warnings, validating emotional based opinions etc.
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Jun 11, 2023 10:00:54 GMT
Poll added. Please tag me or TallPaul if you want a poll, otherwise we might miss your request. To tag me it’s @ admin (without the space), for his nibs it’s @ pdc1 without the space. Cheers!
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Post by adamkinsey on Jun 11, 2023 10:02:36 GMT
As a side point it's interesting in this instance the reviewers experience is clouding his judgement etc Yet other times people's personal experience is expected to be respected and understood with trigger warnings, validating emotional based and opinions etc. I think generally in such cases the personal experience that informs the opinion forms part of/is given in the review. You can then assess where the reviewer is coming from as to whether the reviewer is possibly being overly impacted. I think the best professional reviewers are often able to park their own experience. In this particular instance unless you know the reviewer and what happened to him, you're left with the idea that the work is beyond tasteless and should never, ever have been staged. Which is ridiculous.
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Post by adamkinsey on Jun 11, 2023 10:10:51 GMT
Will be interesting to see what other critics make of it and if their views influence the box office. It is only on for another 2 weeks and has not sold brilliantly. Wonder if they will even break even. Could we get a poll up? Yeah I think it's the first Chichester show, certainly musical, that had a discount offer on. I've not seen any discount offers for Assassins. Where?
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Post by jampot on Jun 11, 2023 10:34:00 GMT
Never seen the show before ..we enjoyed it very much..from the staging to the performances. Nick Holder and Danny Mac standing out..Band sounded great.
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Post by adamkinsey on Jun 11, 2023 16:00:45 GMT
So far, the Sussex reviewer is a lone voice. All the other reviews so far published are mostly 4 stars with the odd 5-star.
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Post by anthony40 on Jun 11, 2023 16:17:14 GMT
Googling and researching the individual Assassins- their back story and their motivations to what it is that they did (either successfully or not)- makes for some interesting reading.
For me the two most interesting were John Hinkley who's obsession with Jodie Foster became dangerous and Lynette "Squeaky" Fromme who, if I am correct- despite his recent death- is still incarcerated and sill devout to Charles Mason.
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Post by Mark on Jun 11, 2023 18:41:27 GMT
I saw this on Thursday and enjoyed it a lot, although it didn't quite match the Menier production which for me was 5 stars all around. This I put at 4 stars - I liked the concept a lot, but it didn't 100% resonate. The ending though, I really liked. A production of great performers for sure. It's big! Will it transfer? Who knows, it's certainly not the easiest show to sell - but it seems a lot for all of three weeks in Chichester.
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Post by nottobe on Jun 11, 2023 18:47:07 GMT
I could see it transferring but not to the west end. Maybe somewhere like Young Vic or even Almeida with a obvious smaller design. The bridge would be a great fit but alas that atleast wouldn't be for a while.
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Post by mrbarnaby on Jun 11, 2023 19:59:21 GMT
I could see it transferring but not to the west end. Maybe somewhere like Young Vic or even Almeida with an obvious smaller design. The bridge would be a great fit but alas that atleast wouldn't be for a while. The bridge would not accept a transfer
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Post by Being Alive on Jun 11, 2023 20:30:51 GMT
This is in talks for a 2024 transfer
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Post by Rory on Jun 11, 2023 20:34:44 GMT
This is in talks for a 2024 transfer Hopefully not the same producers as Bath's Into the Woods!
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Post by Being Alive on Jun 11, 2023 21:07:59 GMT
This is in talks for a 2024 transfer Hopefully not the same producers as Bath's Into the Woods! well...no...it's isn't because this was produced by Chichester?
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Post by mrbarnaby on Jun 11, 2023 21:09:15 GMT
This is in talks for a 2024 transfer Not sure I believe that. It’s not selling well at all currently.
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Post by Rory on Jun 11, 2023 21:19:49 GMT
Hopefully not the same producers as Bath's Into the Woods! well...no...it's isn't because this was produced by Chichester? I meant Second Sight or whatever they're called
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Post by Being Alive on Jun 11, 2023 21:25:15 GMT
Only repeating what I've been told.
Like I said, in talks, doesn't mean it's going to happen, but I know it's being discussed with various London people.
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Post by singingbird on Jun 11, 2023 21:27:10 GMT
This is in talks for a 2024 transfer I hope so. It's probably my favourite musical, although I doubt anything could equal the Jamie Lloyd production for claustrophobic intensity. I was interested to read the Sussex Express review. I think the key is that this show is about the assassins, and pays no mind to the victims (or extended victims) of those assassinations and attempts. I can see why that might make for uncomfortable viewing for some people, but I guess one just has to accept this was never the creatives; intention.
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Jun 12, 2023 9:11:48 GMT
Some posts have been edited. Can we steer away from discussion/speculation of a reviewers personal circumstances please.
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Post by anthony40 on Jun 12, 2023 10:01:39 GMT
This is in talks for a 2024 transfer I hope so. It's probably my favourite musical, although I doubt anything could equal the Jamie Lloyd production for claustrophobic intensity. I was interested to read the Sussex Express review. I think the key is that this show is about the assassins, and pays no mind to the victims (or extended victims) of those assassinations and attempts. I can see why that might make for uncomfortable viewing for some people, but I guess one just has to accept this was never the creatives; intention. Lee, when you kill a president, it isn't murder. Murder is a tawdry little crime; it's born of greed, or lust, or liquor. Adulterers and shopkeepers get murdered. But when a president gets killed, when Julius Caesar got killed—he was assassinated.
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Post by garethg on Jun 12, 2023 13:47:31 GMT
I find the economics of Chichester a bit baffling. How do they afford to put on such a huge production with a large cast for just a 3.5 week run? Most of the reviews in the national newspapers have been very good to excellent. Was bemused by the Sussex Express review - just didn't seem to get it at all - felt a bit embarrassed for him. Like many I had mixed feelings about the production, and it's slightly concerning when the main thing posters on here and the press rave about is the set! But it did work brilliantly in the Chichester space.
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Post by highonahill on Jun 12, 2023 15:02:00 GMT
Some posts have been edited. Can we steer away from discussion/speculation of a reviewers personal circumstances please. BurlyBeaR the information is out there in the public domain, he has been open in articles about his experience and even written a book about it. My intention was to offer a possible explanation for his scathing review, not to speculate, apologies.
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